Do tanks always rush?

[Amiraa]

Many of the responses in this topic are illustrating why I chose to give up tanking level 50 dungeons. When I tank, I generally don't feel comfortable with pulling big groups. I just haven't had a lot of practice. I'm a slow & steady tank. People don't like that.

Do not get discouraged level a class you want to play, many folks don't mind slow paced and others wanting to rush this can leave and cry about it.

[Kanzy0]

Well, this got a lot more response than I was expecting. Glad to see it.
Admittedly, it is comforting to know I'm not the only one experiencing problems with df tanks, though I wish there was a better way to fix it. I've only been asked about speed preferences once out of a month's time frame. Most people don't even notice i'm i90 until a wipe.

But here's another question that has been bugging me ever since I heard it in a dungeon.

Queue into DF as tank = get healers that never bother to weave in and out of Cleric stance to add damage / Stoneskin @ 20% HP of last mob for continuous pulls

I really don't understand this mentality. If I cue as a healer, why is it that I should be expected to invalidate my role and deal damage? Isn't that an insult to the dps, just like a dps healing an insult to the healer? So I guess I just don't understand this mentality either, why should healers be expected to deal damage?

[Eye_Gore]

Well, this got a lot more response than I was expecting. Glad to see it.
Admittedly, it is comforting to know I'm not the only one experiencing problems with df tanks, though I wish there was a better way to fix it. I've only been asked about speed preferences once out of a month's time frame. Most people don't even notice i'm i90 until a wipe.

But here's another question that has been bugging me ever since I heard it in a dungeon.



I really don't understand this mentality. If I cue as a healer, why is it that I should be expected to invalidate my role and deal damage? Isn't that an insult to the dps, just like a dps healing an insult to the healer? So I guess I just don't understand this mentality either, why should healers be expected to deal damage?

Guessing its if the tank is high iLvl and can take alot of damage that maybe the healer doesn't need to concentrate on healing all the time, so they can deal damage.

[Nashred]

My proposal: wait for your buffs, test what the team can handle and proceed and control the pace that suits your team as a REAL tank should.

Agreed , I have been a few parties where the tank pulls to much and we end up dead or starting over or the tank just leaves. As a whm I get the blame allot too. I can only cure so fast and once the tanks cool downs are gone there aint much if all enemies are still alive anyone can do. Yea we have Divine seal/bene and Presence of Mind but they dont go to far. Nothing wrong with large pulls but test the waters first and increase pull size. Sometimes it is just party dynamics that needs to be established. If I never ran with a tank, I dont know what his capabilities are especially first pull. I dont know how many times I got: oops I didn't have shield oath up!

[Zedd702]

Well, this got a lot more response than I was expecting. Glad to see it.
Admittedly, it is comforting to know I'm not the only one experiencing problems with df tanks, though I wish there was a better way to fix it. I've only been asked about speed preferences once out of a month's time frame. Most people don't even notice i'm i90 until a wipe.

But here's another question that has been bugging me ever since I heard it in a dungeon.



I really don't understand this mentality. If I cue as a healer, why is it that I should be expected to invalidate my role and deal damage? Isn't that an insult to the dps, just like a dps healing an insult to the healer? So I guess I just don't understand this mentality either, why should healers be expected to deal damage?

Not to totally invalidate the person you quoted, but this is really situational. I've been in many dungeons where the only time I ever get to DPS with WHM/SCH is on a boss, due to the tank generally biting off more than he/she can chew and keeping me confined to cure, cure, cure oh wait a FREECURE (finally my MP can rest a little). But when I am on a slow and steady pace team (once I identify the type of tank on my team), then I can actually include CS with stone II aero II and holy where needed and heal when I have to. If I am healer and I get a tank that pulls more than what he can handle, expecting my cures/physicks to heal for 3k+ without crits, and they are taking too much damage, I do NOT bother to DPS and won't even attempt it.

Just as it's the call of the tank to set the pace, it's the call of the healer if they have time to heal and DPS. Keep in mind your PRIMARY role is healer, not DPS. So if someone dies because you rather DPS than heal, that's the healers fault. And if you are a healer that is uncomfortable with attacking but you'd rather utilize your cast time and MP towards your main job (healing) that is up to the healer to decide and no one should contest it. If they do, tell them to heal in your place or they should shut the hell up.

[technole]

I really don't understand this mentality. If I cue as a healer, why is it that I should be expected to invalidate my role and deal damage? Isn't that an insult to the dps, just like a dps healing an insult to the healer? So I guess I just don't understand this mentality either, why should healers be expected to deal damage?

I don't think it should be expected in DF. I stance dance because I know the tank is high ilvl and is using their CDs appropriately. There are times when it's just not possible to DPS because of other factors, and that is okay. I think as long as you go-in that everything is situational and if it's not comfortable for you to stance dance and keep the tank alive, then don't do it. Stance>Swiftcast>Holy might be good for the big pull situation but sometimes it won't be.

[Zedd702]

I don't think it should be expected in DF. I stance dance because I know the tank is high ilvl and is using their CDs appropriately. There are times when it's just not possible to DPS because of other factors, and that is okay. I think as long as you go-in that everything is situational and if it's not comfortable for you to stance dance and keep the tank alive, then don't do it. Stance>Swiftcast>Holy might be good for the big pull situation but sometimes it won't be.

Precisely! This is what I said in my post before this one.

[Nashred]

snip

Good post and exactly right.. If large pull and you are just trying to keep up there is no chance of pulling out holy let alone both holy and CS..CS takes a while before it can be used again and if all of a sudden you need a big cure and get stuck with CS on.. Ouch.

[technole]

Good post and exactly right.. If large pull and you are just trying to keep up there is no chance of pulling out holy let alone both holy and CS..CS takes a while before it can be used again and if all of a sudden you need a big cure and get stuck with CS on.. Ouch.

I know that ouch. Bene was used during super pull, back to DPS. Tank takes a nosedive fast (he seemed to be fine up to that point, probably a CD or combination of the slow dps). I'm just aching for CS cooldown to finish. To heck with it, heal with it on to survive those seconds even if it sucks. Swift the big heal next. Gotta love it.

[MrsFluffyButt]

No its everyone's job to understand how as many parts of the game as they can to function optimally.

If a tank can understand his groups gear limitations, predict skill levels based on previous pulls, and manage a rogue regen or an accidental/troll pull, they should strive for it, and strive to clear the dungeon as fast as they can. All while balancing the speed and size of pulls to optimize the risk vs time to clear equation. Why would you strive to do anything less? What is the enjoyment in being mediocre?

The same goes for healers balancing dps/healing, or god forbid if CC became more important do a third task (oh noes).
The same goes for DPS understanding the healers job or the tanks job to improve the groups functioning.

I mean If you want to play the game like a Macy's cashier, doing the bare minimum to get by........ I guess..?

where the hunk did this come from? butt hurt that I called out a mistake that many healer's make?