Let Players Speed Run Again

[BobbinT]

While I understand the concern of current dungeon settings these days, I would have to agree with OP on this though. Dungeons has becoming more boring for me to do. If I'm not so desperate for specific loot or allagan pieces, I would rarely do them and do something else to fulfill my needs, like crafting or open-world activities. I didn't even do high level duty roulette for a very long time.

In fact, I kinda miss the way 1.0 dungeons designed back then. While they would be a bit unforgiving, but there's something in there that always makes me intrigue to return, once I can join a party or assemble one to tackle it. Sadly, this is not the case with ARR version of dungeon mechanics.

And for ppl who thinks DD jobs aren't made for SR, you are quite wrong. Unlike 1.0, every jobs has been equipped with AOE skills. I have partied with jobs like MNK or DRG that can perform SR really well. Heck, even I can do that as NIN since that job have at least 2 AOE abilities that's very useful for large mob nuking.

Even with all that, I still tolerate ppl who doesn't like SR and doing the normal way. Usually when I tanked and getting my 1st large pull, I judge if my current party could handle it. If not, then I proceed with normal run.

But if I'm going with premade party that expect to do SR, I do would expect a smooth runs without unnecessary delays. In fact, both tanks and healers are tested if they could effectively handle larger crowds. Believe it or not, Coil of Bahamut content are actually a speed run content where party will be constantly dealt with things like DPS check. And for those ppl who has beaten the latest coil, you can bet your ass that they can do SR very easily and probably find normal dungeons a bit too mundane.

But then again... if normal dungeons have dps check mechanic, alot would be crying for how hard it is. Just look at how Amdapoor Keep on it's current state compared with it's original design back when ARR starts. It is really... really sad. That is one dungeon that has the most nerfed mechanics I ever seen. Now Demon Wall looks really pathetic.

In a way, SR could actually help players utilize their job more efficiently than just spamming 1-2-3. In fact, I've been doing alot of 1-2-3 in dungeons for some time even while I'm nodding off, since I don't felt so thrilling to do effective rotations to finish them more quicker.

[Nel_Celestine]

In a way, SR could actually help players utilize their job more efficiently than just spamming 1-2-3. In fact, I've been doing alot of 1-2-3 in dungeons for some time even while I'm nodding off, since I don't felt so thrilling to do effective rotations to finish them more quicker.

exactly! the BLM can learn the thrill of spamming FLARE without hate management. Bards spam Rain of death until TP drains dry without hate management! Whate Mages Holy Spaming instead of healing the party! Tanks overpulling and getting killed!

All GREAT things speed running has taught players !

[SpookyGhost]

I really don't understand half the posts in this thread.

Like, I get wanting to enjoy a dungeon... the first time. And if you had some variety, like 10+ dungeons, to queue for then I'd totally be behind taking things slow and steady. There are some dungeons where trash doesn't just stand there and smack you with autoattacks and a random AOE cleave until you kill it (Pharos Sirius, Lost City), but that's pretty much all it does in the other dungeons. The head + hands in Qarn HM really are more of the same, in fact the AOE that holds the person doesn't even hit hard so it's a completely useless trash mechanic - if there were any sense of danger there it'd be alright, but there isn't so it's just more trash. The snakes can petrify you which is, again, another minor inconvenience if you happen to not LoS it/Silence it/etc. Basically, I don't understand the fun of going one trash pack at a time. Weeeeee it's... the same mob I've killed 20 times before! I wonder if he'll do exactly what he did those other 20 times?! Oh, he did! Whooooah!

I just don't get it. Reading some of these posts genuinely made my head hurt. Do people expect new things to come from 4 man dungeons we've done ad nauseam? Why would you not want to go faster? For what reason? Do you not have other things going on in your life that you'd like to do? Do you set aside 2 hours for your expert roulette that day? Why not get it done as fast as possible and then move on with your life? I really am trying my hardest to wrap my head around why anyone would want to take their time in a 4 man dungeon they've done 10 times before. I would love for someone to explain it, because it is genuinely boggling my mind.

[FriendlyUncle]

It can be done. The problem with Qarn is the features that force you to stop. Such as the doors that won't open until you kill the two mummies. The fall before the boss that makes you stop for a seconds. It's like SE is going out of it's way to do even the tiniest thing to slow down the dungeons to a painful crawl.

Like the warden for instance. How he holds you. Yeah it's fast to kill the hands, but if you pull all the mites and snakes into that room and one of the hands grabs the healer or DDs. That potent poison and all the adds damage is going to drop a tank quick. Just another form of way too slow you down.

SE used to reward speed runs.

You're all capable (hopefully) to be able to use the duty finder to form a party that has the subject "Slow and Easy". To take your time in a dungeon. I, however can't speed run, which is unfair. Yes you can do Qarn fast, but what if I do a roulette with my FC and we don't get Qarn. Now we have to do Snowcloak or Satasha which have nearly the same issues. Force stops.

I'm fairly sure that 'reward' was due to the shit quality of the instancing servers. They wanted people to get the hell out as fast as possible so shit wasn't breaking all the time so they encouraged people run as quickly as humanly possible. It wasn't designed that way as a 'reward' but rather just as a precaution so the servers didn't crap out several times a day. Personally I'm tired of dungeons feeling like I'm playing an damn on the rails shooter. Like I'm in Time Crisis or some shit but I'm punching dudes.

[Almalexia]

hate management

I don't understand how tanks would have trouble keeping hate, or how holding hate in a dungeon is any more or less difficult outside of dungeons.

You have to be woefully under ilvl compared to DPS or just plain bad to struggle with enmity. Tanks have generous enmity generation skills.

[Nel_Celestine]

I don't understand how tanks would have trouble keeping hate, or how holding hate in a dungeon is any more or less difficult outside of dungeons.

You have to be woefully under ilvl compared to DPS or just plain bad to struggle with enmity. Tanks have generous enmity generation skills.

because pulling hate back off mobs that get flared over and over and over again when you are trying to hold 10-15 of them. Sure, WAR maybe, but PLD? Flash can only do so much.

Why would you not want to go faster? For what reason? Do you not have other things going on in your life that you'd like to do?

going fast is one thing. Speed running is another. Speed running equates to booting anything that isn't optimal set up, ignoring EVERYTHING and just GOGOGO SPAMSPAMSPAM! If anything, speed running burnt me out on the game more than just running at a normal pace. 3~4 extra minutes is NOT going to make or break you.

[Ellatrix]

because pulling hate back off mobs that get flared over and over and over again when you are trying to hold 10-15 of them. Sure, WAR maybe, but PLD? Flash can only do so much.

They buffed flash. Holding aoe threat on either job is as easy as mashing a single button.

[BobbinT]

because pulling hate back off mobs that get flared over and over and over again when you are trying to hold 10-15 of them. Sure, WAR maybe, but PLD? Flash can only do so much.

I tanked dungeons as PLD way alot more than WAR for SR. If you only think Flash is the only AOE enmity generate, then you are dead wrong and playing it wrong.

And if tank dead so fast, either they forgot or haven't mastered using their buffs yet. PLD does have 4 defense skill buff you know.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

The larger point she was making there, one of the same points I originally made, is that speedrunning - as so many are used to doing it - has neither taught nor encouraged effective use of class/job skills or good habits.

[Kiara]

I just don't get it. Reading some of these posts genuinely made my head hurt. Do people expect new things to come from 4 man dungeons we've done ad nauseam? Why would you not want to go faster? For what reason? Do you not have other things going on in your life that you'd like to do? Do you set aside 2 hours for your expert roulette that day? Why not get it done as fast as possible and then move on with your life? I really am trying my hardest to wrap my head around why anyone would want to take their time in a 4 man dungeon they've done 10 times before. I would love for someone to explain it, because it is genuinely boggling my mind.

Hi Spooky,

I agree that there's nothing "new" the 10th time you've run a dungeon compared to the 2nd time (1st time has that awe/wow factor, etc.).

But by your line of questioning, EVERYTHING in this game is the same the 10th time as the 2nd time. Gathering (the same 4 boring chops per tree), FATEs (you kill a bunch of mobs, mindless), Coil, Primals (look, it's Landslide again, Weight of the Land, etc.).

"Yes," it's not that engaging, but by your reasoning the ultimate distillation of your feelings is:

* To give you a Button that with a Single Click will give you a "REWARD". Done.

Why play the game? Going through any of the Primals for the Hundredth Time isn't any more engaging than before. It's boring and mindless.

That being said, I made a point earlier in this thread that part of the problem is the fundamentally boring Combat System. Yoshi P removed the idea of Party Combos (stuff like Skillchains (Renkei) and Battle Regimens (1.0), which added an *engaging* Meta / Iterant Gameplay System, that would keep even the most basic Battle (from in the open world, in a dungeon, in Primal fights, to Coil, etc.) dynamic and interesting. Figuring out what Party Combos / Skillchains to mix and match with players in any fight. It wouldn't solve everything, but it helps a great deal.

BTW, I'm not saying I like the Dungeons the way they are either. They are very linear, predictable, filled with trash mobs, and don't offer much in terms of rewards. There should be a better solution.

Asking for Speed Runs is only a bandaid on a much deeper issue.