Please Consider Helping New Players

[Moerser]

One thing i do about ppl tryin to nuke their balls off in lower dungeons.
If they do not stop pullin before the tank, and continue to NOT use the chat system.
I just stop healin them.

Ud be surprised, it works wonders.

Greetz,
Mörser out

[Fyrebrand]

So, a few people are sharing anecdotes about offering advice and getting back antagonistic retorts or total unresponsiveness. Maybe you did everything right, I don't know, but keep in mind that the user on the other end may not perceive your comments as you intended them. They don't know who you are, they didn't ask for your opinion of their strategy, and they don't know if you have any idea what you're talking about. Be clear about your intentions, and try not to sound insulting or condescending, even if what you're saying sounds incredibly neutral or tame in your head. You never know how they'll take it. If they respond with hostility to simple advice, you might just write them off as jerks, or maybe they misunderstood your intent.

I'm reminded of this cringe-worthy thread, where the OP actually thought they were giving friendly, helpful advice and but for whatever reason could not see how flagrantly rude they were being. Not saying anyone here was as bad as that, but just pointing out that sometimes what we mean to say is not the same as what others read.


On another note...

Being able to hide behind the intrawebz and say or do what ever you want with no repercussions isn't a good thing and I hope some day they figure out how to make it less easy.

If you like censorship so much, I hear there is this nice place called North Korea. They like to have more people like you there.

Taking responsibility for your words/actions, and facing the repercussions without the guise of anonymity, is not censorship. Nor is it North Korea. "Freedom of Speech" does not mean freedom from criticism or consequences. But for that matter, you actually don't have any protected freedom of speech in this game. Square Enix is the god of the world of FFXIV, and they will come down on you if you don't follow their rules. It's expected that you treat other players with respect -- in fact, you agreed to do so in the Terms of Service. Other players can report you for abusive behaviour, and if SE investigates it and finds in their favour, you're out. I'm not sure what sort of point you were trying to make by comparing this situation to a nightmare dictatorship, but you sound pretty silly.

[Violyre]

I went off on a bad tank once, and only because he locked the two DPS out of the fight by running in while they were watching the CS, and said they should've been ready. Both of the DPS were ACNs and both had to use their taking Carby to keep me, as the WHM, alive throughout the dungeon because he could only hold one mob. I seem to recall him being a PLD. Unfortunatly, I had no tanking experience so I couldn't make suggestions, but his churlish attitude was most of what set me off.

Now that I do have the experience of all three types, I can try to give suggestions to people. If they take it or not is on them. I've liked being tank in duties lately just so I can ask if people know how to do the fight, generally the ones with a mechanic, because I watch them watching the CS.

Which doesn't help when your DPS decides you're not starting fast enough.

I do love helping people that want to learn though, and I don't intend to change that.

[File2ish]

I'm reminded of this cringe-worthy thread, where the OP actually thought they were giving friendly, helpful advice and but for whatever reason could not see how flagrantly rude they were being. Not saying anyone here was as bad as that, but just pointing out that sometimes what we mean to say is not the same as what others read.

Yeah, this is exactly why I added "And if you do offer advice, do it in a non-condescending manner. If you say something in a condescending or scathing way you still make the person feel like they're stupid or bad." to my OP. When I was learning the basics of tanking I did take advice, but the few who offered advice did it in such a way that I wanted to punch their face through my screen. Some people just don't empathize with others very well.

[fireslash]

i am a tank myself ,been to a group where an ARC uses the tanking summon ,didnt say anything since i keep taking aggro and if gave an advice he might get angry or something.the rest of the party didnt say anything because all aggro went smoothly

but i was on the edge when some Ninjas with ilv 110-120 keep fast bursting, thus keeping the aggro on the edge (of course i am A) , its either i am at fault or its their item which give them much aggro,in the end all were happy and thanked the party.i meet tons of tolerant people while i was a GLD and some of 'em spout out the usual nonsense

[Noxifer]

Sorry for wall of text :3 And for some of it being a tad off-topic.

[...]he got super pissed at me when I told him to keep the bird faced away from his healer. He then went on a rant about how he was asking for any special specifics and not "tank 101', [...] If someones going to explain mechanics for you then you probably shouldn't be rude about it when you get what you ask for.

And knowing the boss in question has a forward AoE attack (or a rear one, in some cases) is part of the tactics, yes. So it does seem a bit silly to go off on you for that. Then again, there's this whole world of Interpretation, and if you read the tone differently than was intended (having no voice or body language to help you), it can be very difficult to see things for the advice it is =)

I've done this many times. I've done it because a tank marking a target isn't always right. [...]

[...]I'll let the tank know afterwards if the mob needed to die because it'll turn into something nasty if not prioritised ( like the harrier), I don't harass or even criticise, I just say why I did it.

I rarely mark targets these days, unless I'm running with people who are new players and/or they ask me to; I just focus on the mob that takes the most damage. But when I started out and was running a dungeon for the first time, I did ask the others (who were often heavily level-synched) if they'd mind marking any particular mobs in groups that should be taken down first. Just because I was the tank didn't mean I automatically know every place I set foot in :3 And I've never seen 'tank' as a leading position. I just help my squishy friends by taking the beating for them.
Explaining after the fight is just fine, in my opinion. That way, the tank will (hopefully) know for the next time =D

/grammar nazi on [...]
You are using the word "they" incorrectly. The word "they" is a PLURAL pronoun, meaning that it refers to two of more persons, places, or things. When speaking about a single person, you use either the pronoun "he" or "she". In the English language, the proper pronoun to use when gender is unknown, or neutral, is "he". (except in a few limited instances, ships for instance are referred to as "she" rather than "he") The word "they" should NEVER be used to refer to a single person.

[...]While in written form it is easy to spot the grammatical error, you probably wouldn't think twice about it if someone said it in a regular face to face conversation because you understood what they [the person] were [was] referring to. It can become habit, I'm sure.

It's certainly not the proper use as the single person is being referred to as a collective with the pronoun, but the point is still understandable. I understood it at least.

*coughs* No. "They" is a perfectly acceptable word to use when the subject/object is of indeterminable gender. Of course, when the gender is known that's no longer an issue, is it? Such as with ships; the known 'gender' is female, therefore "she" is the appropriate pronoun.
"Long before the use of generic he was condemned as sexist, the pronouns they, their, and them were used in educated speech and in all but the most formal writing to refer to indefinite pronouns and to singular nouns of general personal reference, probably because such nouns are often not felt to be exclusively singular: If anyone calls, tell them I'll be back at six. [...] Such use is not a recent development, nor is it a mark of ignorance. Shakespeare, Swift, Shelley, Scott, and Dickens, as well as many other English and American writers, have used they and its forms to refer to singular antecedents." (quoted from dictionary.com)

And since you first of all never really know what gender the player is, and secondly don't always pay attention to the gender of their character (especially with how androgynous some can appear to be), it's a lot easier to use 'they' or 'them' than to always write 'he/she' or 'him/her' =)

[Blossoming]

has a forward AoE attack (or a rear one, in some cases) is part of the tactics, yes. So it does seem a bit silly to go off on you for that. Then again, there's this whole world of Interpretation, and if you read the tone differently than was intended (having no voice or body language to help you), it can be very difficult to see things for the advice it is =)

Thing is though I didn't use any type of tone with him. In fact I never do with anyone as I am pretty laid back and totally okay with a dungeon being rough if people are new even if I have run it 100 times. That's the only person I've ever had get aggravated at me for giving any advice for as long as I've played(1.0 beta). If your going to ask for important boss mechanics I'm going to tell you every mechanic so that way there is no "Oh I didn't know" or me going "woops I should of remembered to tell you xxx." Have to make sure the whm/sch doesn't have a more difficult job as it is.

[allecs]

That limit is still here?

I say guides because for some people it takes a bit more than reading the skill description to understand what x does. So reading a guide for better understanding is perfectly fine, it's not to play the game but to actually learn your class. I get it that somethings will have to be explained but basic things are usually rarely explained. You usually have to stop the entire dungeon and break down the entire class for the person. Even if a person doesn't want to read a guide, there's videos. Do want to watch those? That's okay ask a FC mate, don't want to do that? Go out in the world and grab some mobs and notice what skill does what. There's really no reason to ever go in a dungeon with randoms and you don't know the basics of your class, like how overpower works, etc.

[CUTS3R]

One thing i do about ppl tryin to nuke their balls off in lower dungeons.
If they do not stop pullin before the tank, and continue to NOT use the chat system.
I just stop healin them.

I do the same since Beta 3 !

Some of the DPS dont learn from it tho. Ive encountered few of them during Beta stages and were already doing that kind of stupid stuff, and are still doing it almost 2 years later...
Its almost like they dont want to learn from it even tho it literally "kills them".

[NyarukoW]

...
Taking responsibility for your words/actions, and facing the repercussions without the guise of anonymity, is not censorship. .. I'm not sure what sort of point you were trying to make by comparing this situation to a nightmare dictatorship, but you sound pretty silly.

If anything the person that posted it comparing everyone to "idiots" in an "idiocracy" should be help responsible. And on top of that, they want to everyone to shut up which is censorship. If you can't see that, then there is not much to discuss. SE is the ultimate arbiter of these forums, but people should not get away with insulting the whole forum and then some, and then try to get away with denying freedom of speech to everyone else.

See original post:

... Calling people names and telling everyone to shut up ...