Please Consider Helping New Players

[File2ish]

Earlier today I got into an in progress Haukke Manor normal mode when I did my low level roulette on my Ninja.

The group had done the first boss and were fighting mobs on the staircase going down to the basement. The first message in party chat I get was from the Arcanist and read something like "Hope you can handle a bad tank, our last DPS left."

Followed by "Stupid tank doesn't hold hate."

Now, the first thing that came to mind was "This ACN is a prick." As I get to them I notice the ACN had switched to Topaz Carby to get the mobs off him and the CNJ. The Marauder tank was off on his own soloing down a mob.

So I help kill off the mobs killing the healer and ask "Have you tried giving him advice?"

ACN Response: "Yeah, stupid tank doesn't listen."

Followed by the tank replying: "F**k off."

So it was clear either the tank didn't listen OR their "advice" was calling him bad and stupid. It turned out to be the latter.

I offered some advice and explained Overpower and the Skull Sunder combo uses (was mainly doing the Maim combo from what I could tell). Lo and behold, suddenly the tank held 3 mobs at once. The rest of the dungeon I gave a bit of advice when I could. While it didn't exactly go extremely smoothly after that, hopefully now that tank hopefully understands the job and role a bit more from my limited knowledge of MRD's mechanics.

TL;DR?

Don't scare the new players away by being a bloody prick and expecting everyone to know their role inside and out. If someone is clearly having trouble understanding their job, maybe offer advice instead of just calling the person "bad" and "stupid".

And if you do offer advice, do it in a non-condescending manner. If you say something in a condescending or scathing way you still make the person feel like they're stupid or bad. You don't want that if they can learn!

[sayafrost]

Sometimes, even when you do try to help the tank, they just don't listen. I got in Haukke on join in progress sometime ago, while leveling my bard. The tank was alone there, and we got soon a healer and another dps.

The healer, the other dps and I; tried to explain what to do, the tank was a gld (I have one, so i know the logistics), and I tried to explain how to do rotations and use flash and similar.

They didn't know what flash was. We did stick with them to the end, but we didn't arrive to beat even the second boss, because we kept wiping and they were not able to hold aggro at all. Even with healer explaining over and over again what to do.

I am all for helping new players, but in that occasion, my advice in the end was: try other roles aside tanking, maybe you aren't fit for tanking.

But i completely agree, sometimes, just needs to explain stuff, I was lucky I improved tanking because i met awesome people who actually explained what the hell I should do.

[File2ish]

Snip

Sometimes it can't be helped I guess. But at least you tried to explain the role. The instance I shared in the OP wasn't the first time I've seen a player get abused because he or she didn't have a full grasp of the job's role or abilities yet. And even I ran into at least one player who either didn't listen to or understand what was being asked of/told to them.

But still, what I mainly want to get across in the OP was people should consider not being mean as their only response to encountering a new (or "bad") player. Mayhaps they're willing to learn the role, but the impatient just call them bad or give advice in a scathing way.

[sayafrost]

But still, what I mainly want to get across in the OP was people should consider not being mean as their only response to encountering a new (or "bad") player. Mayhaps they're willing to learn the role, but the impatient just call them bad or give advice in a scathing way.

I completely agree with you, because I have been in that role, I started as tank, and after first 3 dungeons, and lots of bashing and nobody explaining I just switched to DPS, and then slowly learned tanking with doing it with friends. So whenever i see a tank struggling, I try to help because that's what I would want when I struggle - I give a hand as best as I could (still don't see myself a really good tank, but I can manage ^_-)

And even when someone is BAD, I really wish that people would be respectful and not insult all call them names ._.

[Marael]

Sometimes, even when you do try to help the tank, they just don't listen. I got in Haukke on join in progress sometime ago, while leveling my bard. The tank was alone there, and we got soon a healer and another dps.

The healer, the other dps and I; tried to explain what to do, the tank was a gld (I have one, so i know the logistics), and I tried to explain how to do rotations and use flash and similar.

They didn't know what flash was. We did stick with them to the end, but we didn't arrive to beat even the second boss, because we kept wiping and they were not able to hold aggro at all. Even with healer explaining over and over again what to do.

/grammar nazi on
Can I offer you a little grammatical advice that will make you less unintelligible to others who are trying to figure out what you are saying?

You are using the word "they" incorrectly. The word "they" is a PLURAL pronoun, meaning that it refers to two of more persons, places, or things. When speaking about a single person, you use either the pronoun "he" or "she". In the English language, the proper pronoun to use when gender is unknown, or neutral, is "he". (except in a few limited instances, ships for instance are referred to as "she" rather than "he") The word "they" should NEVER be used to refer to a single person. When you say "they" but mean "he" you make yourself needlessly confusing, and it will take people who are reading your post a few seconds to process what you wrote to what you probably mean. It's not incorrect, sexist, or whatever to use a singular pronoun to describe a single person. It's proper grammar. In this case "he" would have been most appropriate.
/grammar nazi off

[Kyoskai]

/grammar nazi on
Can I offer you a little grammatical advice that will make you less unintelligible to others who are trying to figure out what you are saying?

You are using the word "they" incorrectly. The word "they" is a PLURAL pronoun, meaning that it refers to two of more persons, places, or things. When speaking about a single person, you use either the pronoun "he" or "she". In the English language, the proper pronoun to use when gender is unknown, or neutral, is "he". (except in a few limited instances, ships for instance are referred to as "she" rather than "he") The word "they" should NEVER be used to refer to a single person. When you say "they" but mean "he" you make yourself needlessly confusing, and it will take people who are reading your post a few seconds to process what you wrote to what you probably mean. It's not incorrect, sexist, or whatever to use a singular pronoun to describe a single person. It's proper grammar. In this case "he" would have been most appropriate.
/grammar nazi off

But they wanted to use "they" to talk about they. D:
Don't be too hard on they, they might not have a solid grasp on the English language.

[File2ish]

*EDIT* Sorry for responding to off topic, but I had to in this case =p */EDIT*

/grammar nazi on

While you are perfectly correct in the manner of which "they" should be used in the English language, many locales of the language use "they" when referring to one person when speaking to another. For example, I could say "The healer wasn't healing enough, it was like they didn't know what they were doing." While in written form it is easy to spot the grammatical error, you probably wouldn't think twice about it if someone said it in a regular face to face conversation because you understood what they [the person] were [was] referring to. It can become habit, I'm sure.

It's certainly not the proper use as the single person is being referred to as a collective with the pronoun, but the point is still understandable. I understood it at least.

[Noxifer]

Sorry for wall of text :3 And for some of it being a tad off-topic.

[...]he got super pissed at me when I told him to keep the bird faced away from his healer. He then went on a rant about how he was asking for any special specifics and not "tank 101', [...] If someones going to explain mechanics for you then you probably shouldn't be rude about it when you get what you ask for.

And knowing the boss in question has a forward AoE attack (or a rear one, in some cases) is part of the tactics, yes. So it does seem a bit silly to go off on you for that. Then again, there's this whole world of Interpretation, and if you read the tone differently than was intended (having no voice or body language to help you), it can be very difficult to see things for the advice it is =)

I've done this many times. I've done it because a tank marking a target isn't always right. [...]

[...]I'll let the tank know afterwards if the mob needed to die because it'll turn into something nasty if not prioritised ( like the harrier), I don't harass or even criticise, I just say why I did it.

I rarely mark targets these days, unless I'm running with people who are new players and/or they ask me to; I just focus on the mob that takes the most damage. But when I started out and was running a dungeon for the first time, I did ask the others (who were often heavily level-synched) if they'd mind marking any particular mobs in groups that should be taken down first. Just because I was the tank didn't mean I automatically know every place I set foot in :3 And I've never seen 'tank' as a leading position. I just help my squishy friends by taking the beating for them.
Explaining after the fight is just fine, in my opinion. That way, the tank will (hopefully) know for the next time =D

/grammar nazi on [...]
You are using the word "they" incorrectly. The word "they" is a PLURAL pronoun, meaning that it refers to two of more persons, places, or things. When speaking about a single person, you use either the pronoun "he" or "she". In the English language, the proper pronoun to use when gender is unknown, or neutral, is "he". (except in a few limited instances, ships for instance are referred to as "she" rather than "he") The word "they" should NEVER be used to refer to a single person.

[...]While in written form it is easy to spot the grammatical error, you probably wouldn't think twice about it if someone said it in a regular face to face conversation because you understood what they [the person] were [was] referring to. It can become habit, I'm sure.

It's certainly not the proper use as the single person is being referred to as a collective with the pronoun, but the point is still understandable. I understood it at least.

*coughs* No. "They" is a perfectly acceptable word to use when the subject/object is of indeterminable gender. Of course, when the gender is known that's no longer an issue, is it? Such as with ships; the known 'gender' is female, therefore "she" is the appropriate pronoun.
"Long before the use of generic he was condemned as sexist, the pronouns they, their, and them were used in educated speech and in all but the most formal writing to refer to indefinite pronouns and to singular nouns of general personal reference, probably because such nouns are often not felt to be exclusively singular: If anyone calls, tell them I'll be back at six. [...] Such use is not a recent development, nor is it a mark of ignorance. Shakespeare, Swift, Shelley, Scott, and Dickens, as well as many other English and American writers, have used they and its forms to refer to singular antecedents." (quoted from dictionary.com)

And since you first of all never really know what gender the player is, and secondly don't always pay attention to the gender of their character (especially with how androgynous some can appear to be), it's a lot easier to use 'they' or 'them' than to always write 'he/she' or 'him/her' =)

[Blossoming]

has a forward AoE attack (or a rear one, in some cases) is part of the tactics, yes. So it does seem a bit silly to go off on you for that. Then again, there's this whole world of Interpretation, and if you read the tone differently than was intended (having no voice or body language to help you), it can be very difficult to see things for the advice it is =)

Thing is though I didn't use any type of tone with him. In fact I never do with anyone as I am pretty laid back and totally okay with a dungeon being rough if people are new even if I have run it 100 times. That's the only person I've ever had get aggravated at me for giving any advice for as long as I've played(1.0 beta). If your going to ask for important boss mechanics I'm going to tell you every mechanic so that way there is no "Oh I didn't know" or me going "woops I should of remembered to tell you xxx." Have to make sure the whm/sch doesn't have a more difficult job as it is.

[Laerune]

From what I have experienced every advice that I have seen players (my fc and friends not included) give to other players has always been given in a condescending manner. Alot of players do not understand that commanding others or insulting them, will not make them take your advice.

I have to agree that newcomers and veterens whom lack skill, should be adviced in a respectfull and kind manner. There are times when someone does not accept or does not want to listen to your advice and that is their choice. If they want to heal, tank or dps on a subpar level, then its their choice to do so. In the end its they who pay for their own subscription and not us.

So to all the players who love to give advice:
- Be kind and respectfull to your fellow players.
- A sentence can be seen in a different way when typing on the internet. A example is sarcasm, its hard for some people to see it, when they read a text. When you talk with someone their voice betrays their feelings.
- Be patient and calm, let them figure the rotation on their own.
- Respect their choice if they decline to take your advice, do not feel insulted, its nothing personal towards you.
- If they take your advice, its going to take time, before they can do it flawless.