Time to bring back 1.23 multi-job relic style dungeons

[Doki]

Getting anything major accomplished in crafting requires leveling everything to 50, I don't see why it shouldn't be the same for endgame dungeon stuff.

[Zoeila]

i pretty sure mog ex would be impossible without provoke. you could try having one tank hold both tank mogs but i dont know

[Alukah]

i pretty sure mog ex would be impossible without provoke. you could try having one tank hold both tank mogs but i dont know

Mog EX = 3 tanks (Titan-egi).

[Cynric]

Just throwing random two cents into this particular comment. My understanding about the Spiney in Garuda EX is that it starts with a very high amount of enmity against one random party member in the group and the only way to feasibly pull it off said target without killing it would be with Provoke.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, however.

For Garuda EX in particular, I say I'm sure simply because that's how they make their content. As far as actual strategies they had in mind when making it for something like not having provoke. I'm sure it's possible. It'd probably a huge hassle to do though depending on like you say how spiney hate works.

[Nalien]

I don't even know why the debate about cross-class skills even matter. There is a pretty huge difference between taking Thaumaturge to Lv.26 for Swift Cast, and taking Thaumaturge to Lv.50 and gearing it for endgame on top of your White Mage.

I'd have used a Gladiator/Warrior comparison, but I realized they'll share gear. Why am I saying this? Because it's pretty ridiculous for me to envision a hypothetical endgame dungeon where it is absolutely important that you switch from Paladin to Warrior mid way through. You'd stay on Paladin and not suffer having your cooldowns reset. Job switching only really works when the Jobs are pretty different from each other, in which case we go back to my original sentence. Both cases of "required" cross-class skills are pretty pathetic in comparison to actually having to switch Job mid-run.

Seriously, the difference between "having" to level other classes for cross-class skills and having to have more than one Job functional in an endgame situation is just too big for this point to be anything but a joke.

[Cynric]

snip

Well the dungeon would have to force you to switch jobs otherwise there'd be no point in designing it to allow a switch in the first place because you could just run it without switching and be no worse for the wear, our classes aren't so vastly different from each other where you'd need to have 4 blm over 4 different jobs and vice versa. It'd also have to alleviate the CD when switching.
In other words, it'd just be a waste of dev time with our current system.

[Hik0]

Yes if you stay on the same jobs throughout a dungeon if time isn't an issue does it then really matter how long it takes to get done? What's the point of changing jobs mid run? To a point we already do this. In Coil we double tank turn 6, 7, and single tank turn 8 and 9 having people switch jobs in the waiting area before heading on to the next turn.

People cry for more challenging content, this offers that, more challenge.

do you think they go dual tank in t6-7 and solo tank in t8-9 because it's more challenging this way? I bet they do it that way because it's easier/more eficient.

Back when I had a character on Sargatanas in 1.23 I was fortunate enough to get a group of people who were willing to let me do AV runs as a Monk without having to change classes. Got through with no issues, no deaths even during Coincounter (to their surprise).

But the main difference is your party make up cannot consist of just one BiS job for each member, and all of your members needs to be able to perform 3-4 different jobs in order for you to even think about doing the dungeon. You have cases where at one boss, you need to have a WAR to tank, and at another, you need that PLD, at the same time at some phases you need that BLM while in another you must have your MNK.

Alpha prooved that you didn't need X job to do, but just that people stick on certain jobs for certain phase and that a good player on an "unadapted job" could do it right

You didn't needed a war for X boss and a pld for Y you wanted them because it was easier that way

In other words, your party better be ready to deal with the different strengths of the bosses, so you must be able to utilize the difference strengths of your jobs. It isn't just about knowing when to dodge this, when to move to the left, and when to avoid being pushed off of that edge.

no you don't use the different strenght of your jobs, you adapt your set up so you can avoid monster strenght

I don't say 1.23 were not more challenging than 2.x but that if you couldn't change job they would have been ever more challenging.

in other word being able to switch job mid dungeon just lower the overall challenge of this dungeon

[Resheph]

I think that the need/greed loot system is actually what prevents this kind of thing from happening again. I don't want speed runs back at all, but it might be nice to be able to change jobs if you're in a pre-built party (where you can't use the DF to replace) and someone quits/dc's and doesn't come back.

[SeraviEdalborez]

It's not really. I've played with a few people who didn't have swiftcast and they performed just fine.

Subjective statement is subjective. Context is important. "Performed just fine" in what? Ifrit HM? Savage Turn 9? Hunts?

You can work without it (we have a healer in our alt coil group who has T9 clears without it, but he's also cleared many times on his main that DOES have Swiftcast) but it eliminates one of many safety barriers for no better reason than "I can't be bothered to level a 2nd job".

[Dwill]

Subjective statement is subjective. Context is important. "Performed just fine" in what? Ifrit HM? Savage Turn 9? Hunts?

You can work without it (we have a healer in our alt coil group who has T9 clears without it, but he's also cleared many times on his main that DOES have Swiftcast) but it eliminates one of many safety barriers for no better reason than "I can't be bothered to level a 2nd job".

I second this.

Not having Swiftcast isn't gamebreaking if you aren't doing somewhat difficult content. But if you actually do said content, then it is expected that you'll have it if you're a White Mage/Summoner. If people can't be bothered to spend ~4-5 hours to get THM to level 26, I doubt people will bother with them.