Why can't we have jobs with this level of depth and customization in FFXIV?

[Felis]

been about 4 years now. This games direction is pretty much set in stone.

Casual duty finder theme park with a bunch of one shot mechanics and a gear treadmill.

3 years (the planning started 2011)

[Richiealvian]

However deep it is, I don't believe there's no BiS, to be honest. Since we're talking about DPS output here, if let's say an armor with "1% chance of your next critical damage to be doubled" or "extends the duration of blood for blood by 5 seconds" increases your dps over let's say a 5 minute period, then that's that. It's what people will strive to build for.. no matter how complex you'd like to make it seem?

[BloodPact]

This is X not Y is a terrible reason for not adding in interesting mechanics/depth to the game.
Seriously people who reply like this are stupid.

There is a huge outcry by lots of people for more depth in all areas of the game, from gear, to jobs, to the open world, to monster AI. BUT NOPE THIS IS XIV SO WE CAN'T HAVE THAT NOT AT ALL XIV DOESN'T ACCOMMODATE TO CHANGE OR CHOICES FOR THE PLAYER.

You know what's also terrible? Comparing a system with jobs with abilities up to level 99 that has had like a decade to be polished (and still balance is nowhere near as it is in XIV) to a much newer system that is capped at 50 currently.

When someone comes and references Final Fantasy XI's accomplishments IN THE SAME TIME FRAME that XIV has had to develop then I'll take any of these posts seriously.

[Magis]

You know what's also terrible? Comparing a system with jobs with abilities up to level 99 that has had like a decade to be polished (and still balance is nowhere near as it is in XIV) to a much newer system that is capped at 50 currently.

When someone comes and references Final Fantasy XI's accomplishments IN THE SAME TIME FRAME that XIV has had to develop then I'll take any of these posts seriously.

Wasn't PUP (the job being compared to) released in Treasures of Aht Urhgan Expansion which was still lvl 75? It was released in 2006 btw, way before even FFXIV 1.0 was created so what are you talking about? Also... a game MADE BY SE, had a decade to be polished and seen what works and doesn't... and then most of the experience gathered from creating it is ignored when ARR was being made. It's not like XIV 1.0 and ARR was their first MMO.

[Felis]

Wasn't PUP (the job being compared to) released in Treasures of Aht Urhgan Expansion which was still lvl 75? It was released in 2006 btw, way before even FFXIV 1.0 was created so what are you talking about? Also... a game MADE BY SE, had a decade to be polished and seen what works and doesn't... and then most of the experience gathered from creating it is ignored when ARR was being made. It's not like XIV 1.0 and ARR was their first MMO.

Your argument would be ok if SE just copied XI instead to program another FF MMO with another mechanics and battle system. In a new MMO simple classes/jobs come first as a basic of the game. Complex classes/jobs come later. Like a strawberry cake. You bake thirst the bottom before you add the strawberries. Then the icing and the cream at least. You don't bake the bottom with the strawberries just because you did another strawberry cake before it already.

[Seiryuukishi]

I haven't followed the Ninja job information, but:



Did they just add LOTR Warden to the game?

Yes please!!!!

[Seiryuukishi]

It's not WoW either but alas.

You're right, it's not WOW. It's Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn. No cartoon land here.

[Themis]

Wasn't PUP (the job being compared to) released in Treasures of Aht Urhgan Expansion which was still lvl 75? It was released in 2006 btw, way before even FFXIV 1.0 was created so what are you talking about? Also... a game MADE BY SE, had a decade to be polished and seen what works and doesn't... and then most of the experience gathered from creating it is ignored when ARR was being made. It's not like XIV 1.0 and ARR was their first MMO.

The simple truth is that XIV is designed for new players and new MMO players more than it is experienced XI veterans.

Target audience is very much applicable here. Back when XI was released, and during it's development, it was played by a lot of experienced MMO players (especially from EQ which was a primary reason why Square made XI). That's what is being ignored by the player base who have to compare XI to XIV all the time. Different games, different target audiences. There's this strange notion that a new MMO must have everything that every other MMO has had since the first ones came out. I mean, why not... it's not like this is the first MMO to ever be made, either.

On the topic of the level of design into classes, look at how they designed Arcanist for this game. Enough to provide some basic pet interaction, but nothing highly advanced or tactical about their control or AI. This is because it allows the player to focus less on their pet management and more on their own gameplay. Having to focus on just 1 thing can be a lot for a new player (even for some long term players). Having them focus on multiple would be going against the whole "we made this game for new players to start to get into an MMO" ideal.

3.0 is also being designed with this "new player" philosophy in mind, and that's a wise decision. SE know, I'm sure, that the 1st expansion is one of the biggest milestones that ARR will ever meet. Most players will decide at this point whether they want to keep going, and players who have had their eye on the game will decide whether they really want to give it a try. The main audience being targeted are these players who may not have played an MMO before, or even a game (beyond the mobile cash generators they'll most likely have played).

What we need to hope for, though, is that after this big marker we can start to see a general shift in the game direction towards something much more suited to those who have been playing for a while. This I see happening. Basically, the game will grow with it's player base, and the "age" of that player base (by that, I mean how long the average player has been playing for). That age, though, is tied to how long XIV has existed since 2.0, not from when some players first started playing MMOs. Thus, XIV's current design should reflect that of an MMO that is 1 year old. Not compared to an MMO that is now over 12 years old. What worked for XI doesn't have to be carried over into XIV. Neither do the lessons taught and learned in XI have to be carried over to XIV. They are different games, and the design direction for XIV is not the same as XIs in any way or shape at all.

[Seiryuukishi]

How about I post this video from 2006 I found on my old computer to show people how dreadfully boring the combat system was.

http://youtu.be/qWrvaVgX69s

Take off the rose tinted goggles please everyone.

OMG not no but hell no. I would shoot myself. There's a huge difference between long, fun fights with people and "why am I still here?" fights.

[Fendred]

puppet master and summoner would be good candidates for one particular kind of hybridization. They could make it so that their specific role shifts depending on what pet or mode of operation they have their pet in during dungeon encounters. I think he said that he didn't want to make pet operations too complex though. I still think it would be possible without over complicating things (I mean, how hard is it to have a pet stand there and hold aggro? Eos was still fairly manageable on the healing side of things).

I understand his stance isn't to overburden players, but they need to bend the rules a little bit if they intend to make any kind of hybrid.