Why can't we have jobs with this level of depth and customization in FFXIV?

[Risvertasashi]

Devs already said if they have a job that focuses more on the pets in fights, it is a unfair disadvantage compared to others. In this game at least. FFXI goes at a pace where you can afford to mess with things like managing your puppet/summon.

How about a similar level of customization on the player, then?

Lets like at the high end game event in current FFXI delve. The following jobs people take in this 18 man event.

Job - Role
MNK - DPS/Tank
DRK - DPS
DRG - Argon (-25% defense) / dps (low dps but hey they mainly for argon)
WHM - Healer
SCH - Healer/buffer
BRD - buffer
COR - buffer
GEO - buffer/debuffer

For a game that has 22 jobs basically people only take these few around to endgame. If you have a non standard group of friends sure you can take non optimal jobs but any pug they will only want these certain jobs.

You see jobs that you could customize to do a role like pup where never taken or used in endgame because there were specialized jobs that did their role better.

Sure, but I'm not advocating we copy FFXI endgame, mechanics, or puppetmaster.

You're basically asking for what an earlier poster pointed out: you want multiple builds and for them all to be viable. Which yeah, would be awesome, but how often do you see that? Yeah..

If you look at my previous posts, you'll see I'm not asking for that. I'm OK with a lot of nonviable builds as long as 1. a few of them are viable. Even 2 or 3 would be better than what we have now and 2. gives us something to tinker with when not in high end raid content and maybe losing that 10% efficiency doesn't actually matter that much.

[DenariusJay]

ffxi is for ocd neurotic players.
ffxiv is for the everyday gamer.

This is pretty much it in a nutshell. FXIV caters to console players and your everyday gamer whos just lookin' for some good ol' fasion fun without the painstaking hours of trying different builds/gears to figure out which ones the most optimal. I can already see it now if they added this into this game, "Looking for DPS for T6 but you must be X gear, with Y build, no a/b/c/d build allowed" - well gee that sucks, because what if that person dumped all there gil and time playing a certain build but is now deemed "inefficient" ? That's what FXIV was trying to avoid, hence the very pigeonholed classes with very little wiggle room.

While in theory its fun to have variety, inevitably what happens is there ends up being one kick-ass build while the other 99 go to waste or are just there for iconic/amusement reasons. I want the devs to really take there time and really think about how to go about adding variety within each class/job without making something completely useless. It's a tall order but I think it can be done if given time.

[Gilthas]

Sure, but I'm not advocating we copy FFXI endgame, mechanics, or puppetmaster.

Yes, but the point still is: jobs having multiple build options is meaningless when only a few of these are viable. More so when they end up with no "great builds" and get outclassed by the "specialist" jobs. Jack-of-all-trades jobs have always had this problem.

You're basically asking for what an earlier poster pointed out: you want multiple builds and for them all to be viable. Which yeah, would be awesome, but how often do you see that? Yeah...

[Lollerblades]

They can have all my money for Pup. Adored it in XI.

[HeroSamson]

This is X not Y is a terrible reason for not adding in interesting mechanics/depth to the game.
Seriously people who reply like this are stupid.

There is a huge outcry by lots of people for more depth in all areas of the game, from gear, to jobs, to the open world, to monster AI. BUT NOPE THIS IS XIV SO WE CAN'T HAVE THAT NOT AT ALL XIV DOESN'T ACCOMMODATE TO CHANGE OR CHOICES FOR THE PLAYER.

Interesting mechanics?

They were in FFXI it's nothing new and SE wants to do something new not put stuff from a game that already exists.

[Gilthas]

Interesting mechanics?

They were in FFXI it's nothing new and SE wants to do something new not put stuff from a game that already exists.

This is where someone comes in and calls FFXIV a WoW clone.

Personally, the most important thing in a game for me is how fun it is to play. It being original or not has little importance to me.

[Amberion]

I haven't followed the Ninja job information, but:

Additionally, the pacing of the game was much, much slower, allowing more methodical methods to be used, and fit with the theme of the game. In similar respects, look at how the concept of Ninja was created. 3 Runes, that in various combination, creates different attacks - rather than a large spell list. Complexity through simplicity.

Did they just add LOTR Warden to the game?

Back to topic sort of;

You're basically asking for what an earlier poster pointed out: you want multiple builds and for them all to be viable. Which yeah, would be awesome, but how often do you see that? Yeah...

Well, the Sky shells I was in never discriminated on jobs. As long as we had 1 or 2 tanks in the alliance, then we rotated everyone besides the BRD.. and me as RNG in the beginning for winds, since we where not as geared at that time.

This is from CoP era, but a few jobs did have several options that where viable or situational. Like: SAM/(WAR/THF/RNG), NIN/(WAR/DRK/BLM) and then Ranger that only had 2 subjob options, but had 3 different weapon builds, well 4 with culverine.

So while not all combination where viable, there where options, and not just illusions of options as some say.

FXIV caters to console players and your everyday gamer whos just lookin'

Just thought I should point out that FFXI where much more a console type game then FFXIV. Heck, it was even created for the PS2 before they ported it to PC.

Anyway, I'm all for complexity. It's things like that that brings a game to life.

Personally, the most important thing in a game for me is how fun it is to play. It being original or not has little importance to me.

True, but when it comes to an RPG, I want to have the feeling that the game world is alive. Like my character lives there. Things like time, weather and other things actually matter somehow.

[saeedaisspecial]

Interesting mechanics?

They were in FFXI it's nothing new and SE wants to do something new not put stuff from a game that already exists.

"Interesting mechanics already exist."
"XIV is not going to do something that already exists"
"Therefore XIV will not have interesting mechanics."
Fun game.

[HeroSamson]

This is where someone comes in and calls FFXIV a WoW clone.

Personally, the most important thing in a game for me is how fun it is to play. It being original or not has little importance to me.

Yeah I know they will say then why make FFXIV like WoW.

Also if they did make puppet, the puppet will be weak as all hell, its not gonna be as strong as ffxi's puppet, just like yoshi said before if they was to give wyvern back to dragoon it would be weak.

So would the puppet and the puppet wouldn't be the same as XI's either it would be totally different and after finding out they wouldn't play the job making it a waste of a slot for a better class.

[Hyrist]

If you look at my previous posts, you'll see I'm not asking for that. I'm OK with a lot of nonviable builds as long as 1. a few of them are viable. Even 2 or 3 would be better than what we have now and 2. gives us something to tinker with when not in high end raid content and maybe losing that 10% efficiency doesn't actually matter that much.

But you do. You have the Class system. The Class system is about variability, the Job system is about Refinement, honing your stats and execution to that point needed for those difficult raids.

But you are going to be asked, pretty much at all times with a party, to be efficient. Having SE institute a variety that won't be efficient really does sort of fall off as far as worthwhile pursuits.

Moreso, creating multiple paths to reach the same goals can just as easily be achieved on the player side by expanding their field of play. You yourself only have 2 classes to 50, and they both share role - healer. You easily know how those classes can vary in their method of healing. Stacking MND for both is a must, sure, but one values crit more. Both Jobs are an option to you, and you get your depth and variety in having that accessible to you.

If I wanted to go more crit based as a Damage Dealer, I could go Monk. That's the great thing - we're not limited to one job or Class here, as we are in many MMOs. So the method of choices change.