Echo for EX and Coils, wtf?

[Welsper59]

No, I'm just suggesting that old content isn't worthless, and that new players (like myself), and even older players, might find value in going back and experiencing an encounter how it was originally scaled. Throwing in an achievement for that is a minimal touch, and one that has value I think.

None of this is about feeling like a "special snowflake", it's about keeping content around that appeals to those that like it. I'm certainly willing to concede that it may be necessary to have things like the echo, for players with disabilities, or lack of time, or bad reaction times, etc, being inclusive is probably a good thing. At the same time I am not disabled, I have fast reaction times, I enjoy the challenge and team building process, and also don't have a lack of time. Being inclusive goes both ways.

Short of lowering your gear to the intended ilvl, or the possible future implementation of an ilvl cap (which is unlikely for older content), you will never experience the same content in the intended way. AND if a group really did want to do something without the echo... just turn it off? Or were you implying that these people would miraculously experience a complete Coil with a group of strangers (which is generally not how this content is intended to be initially experienced)? I would love to see pure DF/PF-type pugs complete Coil in its intended form and difficulty LOL.

The whole argument makes little sense when you back it up with such unrealistic and merely theoretical assumptions.

I mean honestly having some structure and competition to things is fun. Time trials and leaderboards might be cool as well. Why are some of you seemingly so opposed to it?

Because some people are not so gluttonous about their wants as folks like you. Some of us are fine with the easing of content. Some of us understand that others can't handle some difficult content that isn't currently the main endgame progressive raid. There's also an understanding that by having the buff up, people won't be so quick to flame each other, given the better odds of clearing it faster/easier. And then, there's those of us that understand your complaints are just being made for the hell of it. You're literally looking for something that people don't care about. You said it yourself, others (including YOU) wouldn't bother with this unless it were literally forced on you. So why is it something you want?

I get the idea/enjoyment of going back and experiencing something for how it was, but you have to understand one thing... our gear gets better as time goes on. Do you really believe you and your raid would actually go back to it wearing nothing but i70 gear for most turns? Add myth and other i90 gear as you go through the latter turns. No, you wouldn't do it. If you're too lazy/stubborn to bother turning off the echo buff to experience the content without it, I can guarantee (with 100% certainty), you'd be too lazy/stubborn to revert back to that lower ilvl gear.

[Tupsi]

Good god girl, get a grip. You want them to do extra work so you can stay a special snowflake????

And people wonder why there are those who dislike everyone "getting what they had to do the "hard way" content wise..." notice how the insults tend to come from the side that support making things easier? No need to call someone names.

I'm truly lost for word with some of the people on these forums.

Best part? She wasn't rude in any way in her post in comparison.

I always hear this pretense.

Yet where's the group that wants this that actually goes to Coil

1.) Equips gears below ilvl90
2.) Clicks off echo

I90 gear existed since launch, by the way, it just took awhile for people to get it since Philo tomes were the main tomes and Myth had a low weekly cap so most people had at least a piece or two of Myth gear by time they started clearing T4 andT5.

Another one of her suggestions is something SE is already implementing:

Ilvl level sync.

So those against what she said should tell SE to never utilize it outside of PvP even though it's obvious they will.

[OranKells]

I'm of two minds on this.

I am not a fan of people being carried through early content because they are an unskilled player only to arrive in much harder battles later in which they cause the group to fail because they didn't learn the lessons of the earlier battle.

that being said; no amount of echo will help you dodge a landslide or a twister, it will not teach you how to not kill the spiny plume or one of the moogleguards. echo will not optimize your rotation or walk your dog or do your homework.

All echo does is artificially boost your ilvl and thus your hp & dps all of which is secondary in most battles to your skill at the dance dance dodge dodge revolution part of the battle and understanding the mechanics

now considering all that, IF for some reason everyone knows the mechanics , can dodge everything, everyone is dressed to the 9s in soliderr/coil gear and you still cant seem to clear it with some echo

then its you.
You kinda suck and probably don't deserve to win. sorry

[Alberel]

Why do you have a problem with it?

How can I put it simpler for you?

Fight is fun.

I like fight.

SE adds echo to fight.

Fight is now super easy and no longer fun.

I'm not happy.

SE is sending a message saying "You clearly don't want to have fun with this fight, or you would've done it already. So now you get easy mode. Here's your win! Congrats!"

Except, you know, you could just turn the echo off and it's exactly as fun as it was before!

Of course the truth here is that you didn't and never did care about the fight itself. You just enjoyed lauding your victory over the people that couldn't beat it (which I think could be said for the majority of those complaining about the echo). If all you want is to enjoy the fight then turning the echo off and letting everyone else continue with or without it as they choose shouldn't bother you. The fact that you need to complain makes it pretty clear that you're just upset your little exclusive club has been inundated with new members.

[Gilraen]

Fanning the flames in this post, I know, but the Echo is not an 'Easy' button. Echo isn't a buff, it's a crutch. I tried doing Garuda Extreme with a group who never did it before, managed to get to the last phase a couple times, had Echo out the arse... still lost. After 4-5 wipes people started bailing unhappy that even with the Echo we never killed her. The Echo is not some magical level 75 tank that will carry a fight for you out of awesome, it is a minor 'buff' that just gives you a little more health, defense and attack. I think it's a 5% boost maximum. 5% Take the last digit off whatever number you're looking at in those areas and cut it in half and that's what you're getting. 2800 HP becomes 2940 HP. Doesn't look like much now, does it. That's not even enough to withstand a stomp from Titan in his last phase.

[Tupsi]

Fanning the flames in this post, I know, but the Echo is not an 'Easy' button. Echo isn't a buff, it's a crutch. I tried doing Garuda Extreme with a group who never did it before, managed to get to the last phase a couple times, had Echo out the arse... still lost.

People still mess up twisters and all you have to do is not stand still or run into people - If people can mess up such an easy concept as running in a small circle around you or a straight line away from someone else, people can mess up anything no matter how easy or hard.

Literally, twisters is just not standing still...but tunnelvision is a powerful thing.

The Echo is not some magical level 75 tank that will carry a fight for you out of awesome, it is a minor 'buff'

Yoshida (Director/Producer) himself calls it a buff to help players, the game itself calls it a buff to help players - The very fact it allows more leeway means it is there to carry you and make it easier, or in the game's terms, 'facilitate victory.'

2800 HP becomes 2940 HP

9100 HP tank Hp eventually becomes over 11k, without a buff (e.g Thrill of Battle), 3200-3800 Hp mages becomes over 5k HP mages, meaning what used to one shot them, e.g plumes, no longer does. So a simple 2800-2940? I think you're ignoring the obvious that echo adds well over 25-50% bonus HP not counting food and VIT bonus from party.

[Gormogon]

I90 gear existed since launch

MY point still stands.

Form your nostalgia party.
Every reduce their gear to an adequate ilvl,
Everyone clicks off echo.

If you aren't doing this and you can't get other to join and do it. Just comes to show how much one truly cares about that "nostalgia" outside of just mentioning it.

You just enjoyed lauding your victory over the people that couldn't beat it.

Really what it's boiling down to.

I want my super secret clubhouse MMO.

[Ramzal]

You could... You know... Click off your echo or even stop dying so much as to activate it. What with a lack of death causing you to oneshot content. And if it's a matter of others messing up then welcome to human error. It happens and echo isn't for the people who can't dodge, its for people who can so they can carry those who can't.

[Gilraen]

People still mess up twisters and all you have to do is not stand still or run into people - If people can mess up such an easy concept as running in a small circle around you or a straight line away from someone else, people can mess up anything no matter how easy or hard.

This is what makes Echo a crutch. But then I also think 'watching videos' is a crutch. You don't know a fight until you actually experience it. Yes, Echo does compound with other bonuses, but no amount of bonuses is going to save you if you don't know the fight. So you survived a plume, good for you but you're going to have to wait in line for heals while the healers take care of prior injured between dodging. I guess a good way to better end this thought is to stop bashing the Echo and bash those that don't help those that rely on the Echo.

[Gormogon]

This is what makes Echo a crutch. But then I also think 'watching videos' is a crutch. You don't know a fight until you actually experience it. Yes, Echo does compound with other bonuses, but no amount of bonuses is going to save you if you don't know the fight. So you survived a plume, good for you but you're going to have to wait in line for heals while the healers take care of prior injured between dodging. I guess a good way to better end this thought is to stop bashing the Echo and bash those that don't help those that rely on the Echo.

Echo is a biproduct of difficult content. Even if one were to deem it "easy" it isn't "easy" for a very big portion of the player base.