Echo for EX and Coils, wtf?

[Gerolan]

To the OP, so your elitist without actually beating the content yourself? Double standards some might say
Echo can be clicked off, if it offends you that much, to quote another player in this thread ... Get over yourself

[Zaero]

I'll parrot that one. You can turn off echo. And yet, every time I've suggested that to someone whining about "EKHO EASY MODE!!" they shrivel up and won't do it (since it gives me moar numbers).

I've no sympathy. People want hard content (like Titan Ex) then complain it's too hard (despite the fact it is just know the mechanics - before anyone gives me the "Titan EX is easy" speech) and demand content be made easier so they can progress. MMO LOGIC!

[Gormogon]

I'll parrot that one. You can turn off echo. And yet, every time I've suggested that to someone whining about "EKHO EASY MODE!!" they shrivel up and won't do it (since it gives me moar numbers).

I've no sympathy. People want hard content (like Titan Ex) then complain it's too hard (despite the fact it is just know the mechanics - before anyone gives me the "Titan EX is easy" speech) and demand content be made easier so they can progress. MMO LOGIC!

It is how it is.

I'm waiting for savage mode coil. The end result is gonna be beautiful.

[Jubez187]

echo or not, I'm still not gonna be able to beat T5 as long as the girl in our static (who is friends with the leader) can't understand the concept of dive bombs.

[Kuwagami]

echo or not, I'm still not gonna be able to beat T5 as long as the girl in our static (who is friends with the leader) can't understand the concept of dive bombs.

1) Join/create a PF group for T5 clear
2) do it when your static isn't here
3) ???
4) profit

You can still wait after that to go in T6. Just don't get stuck on a farmable content when a static isn't needed anymore :/

[Yoninxi]

Only two things I see here are -
1) content is too hard so I need echo to help me through.
2) content is already easy, echo just keeps bad players bad.

All I can say is , have fun with 25% echo on mog and leviathan. Lol

[Odett]

I see a lot of bad qualities of the Echo and a lot of convenient ones.

It's convenient in fights like TitanHM, EX, and Ifrit EX due to not having to cry as you wipe due to the same DPS consistently dying and not having enough damage for heart, bombs, and nails. With Echo, you can have 1 tank, 1 healer, and one DPS do the whole fight post-heart in Titan HM. At the same time, a lot of those people that get carried (dying before or at the start of phase 5 is a carry whether you want to admit it or not) get the clear and go on to Titan EX and die from HM mechanics.

Echo definitely makes T1 and T4 marginally easier, T2 has been a joke every since the Enrage method was discovered. It certainly makes things more convenient for players who wish to grind these turns in order to get ilv 90 gear without spending Myth, but a lot of new players also feel disappointed that they never got to experience the fight without kid gloves. Sure, you can make a "no Echo" PF, but good luck with having people join. Even if you dislike the Echo, you won't join because it makes things more convenient, whether you want to admit it or not. With that said, in T1 and T4, if you're a tank and you cannot establish agro, you will wipe your group.

Levi getting Echo will mean that Wavetooth dying super fast without probably a need to stunlock, reducing the difficulty of the fight. Bubbles will go down fast too, but it's not even a DPS race anymore with most people in ilv100 gear, it was much more challenging when the content came out and everyone was ilv 90 at most.

Where I see Echo as a failure is in the difficulty curve of the game. A lot of players had trouble with fights like Titan HM because they had never had to deal with so many mechanics before that fight. This game goes from "a baby can do it" easy to actually having to pay attention at level 50. Dying in Titan HM and winning the fight because 3-4 other players knew it well and beat it and going on to unlock harder fights without learning previous easier ones is only doing yourself a disservice because the game only gets more punishing.

I used to think that making fights easier would only allow a higher pool of poor players unlocking a harder fight and making it harder for others, but I stopped thinking like that after I beat Titan EX in 2.1 and facepalmed at nonhealers dying in Ifrit EX, which is arguably the easiest primal BY FAR if you're not a healer. The truth is that poor players will continue to exist whether there is Echo or not.

What Echo has been achieving is helping groups who need an extra push to down a fight that's no longer part of the latest patch. You can see Echo as the helping hand you've been needing, or see it as a disservice to players because it's essentially the devs saying "Hey, we're gonna give a stacking handicap to a boss so you can beat it even though it can definitely be killed without it", you're not wrong either way.

[Alukah]

Only two things I see here are -
1) content is too hard so I need echo to help me through.
2) content is already easy, echo just keeps bad players bad.

All I can say is , have fun with 25% echo on mog and leviathan. Lol

Team A - Players with the minimum gear to do a content
Team B - Players with i100-i110 gear pieces

Echo helps Team A have the same stats as Team B, but both teams have to deal with the same mechanics.

If you think A is a group of bad players because they have a stat boost, you should also think B is a group of bad players for over-gearing (stat boost) for an easy content.

[Odett]

Team A - Players with the minimum gear to do a content
Team B - Players with i100-i110 gear pieces

Echo helps Team A have the same stats as Team B, but both teams have to deal with the same mechanics.

If you think A is a group of bad players because they have a stat boost, you should also think B is a group of bad players for over-gearing (stat boost) for an easy content.

It's not as simple as that. What if Team A has the same average ilv of Team B, but they have bad DPS due to bad rotations, and tanks die due to not using one of their 6+ defensive cooldowns? Echo will make it so they do as much damag and mitigate it as Team B without the Echo, but in the harder fights that follow, a bad rotation will mean a wipe due to a lost DPS race. This is what some players mean when they say that it encourages bad players to stay bad.

[Sp3cia1]

Why should a end user who hasn't learned anything the previous raids be able to go into the next set, considering they just build on top of existing mechanics. End user who don't learn anything at the end game isn't a designer fault, its a PICNIC problem.