Dragoons: A Rotation Reborn

[Gardes]

He's only half right, the rotation at the first page is the optimal rotation assuming you have the base GCD of 2.5, but with SS say... 2.4 GCD your rotation with your OFF-GCD skills have to move a bit. Skill Speed becomes entirely useless if you follow that rotation by the letter, because it doesn't utilize SS potential to get an extra skill or 2 off in a smaller time. An example would be leg sweep, try stacking all your skill speed gear and try to do the normal rotation, if you'll notice that if you delay using your next GCD to use leg sweep before a particular skill you'll be completely negating the effects of skill speed entirely. It's a bit hard to explain, but what I'm trying to say is, if you use a off-gcd skill in between your gcd skill and that said off-gcd skill is delaying gcd skill regardless of why (example, it became available when there's 1 second left till your GCD is ready and you forced to pop it first), it's better to wait for the next gcd to use it, so the incoming GCD won't be delayed by the off-gcd skill's animation.

Ughh wall of text, I hope you understand what I was trying to say xD

Care to elaborate on how much SSP is needed for any of this and what the rotation would look like? Does it even alter the actual full rotation GCDs?

[Decrith]

Care to elaborate on how much SSP is needed for any of this and what the rotation would look like? Does it even alter the actual full rotation GCDs?

It's generally the same for the GCD rotation, only difference is, the off gcd skills are moved by a GCD at a certain point (and moved again by another point) because it'll delay your GCD if you use a skill when your GCD is almost complete. I'm certain a lot of people would disagree with me that moving the off-gcd skills or holding off in using them will hurt your DPS, but not utilizing the SS you have is a greater lost imo (assuming you have a lot of it).

[Altena]

Huh? I don't know if I'm understanding you correctly but are you trying to say that clipping CT after 3 ticks is better then using FT combo filler lol?

You left out on your maths that CT dot will be ticking when both clipping CT and when using FT combo.

Well no, it won't be better and after rereading my OP I can understand why you think that is what I am saying as I wasn't very clear. You will be missing out on the DoT from Chaos that ticks while you do a 2nd FT combo. I guess what I am trying to figure out is at what point is it "ok" to clip CT, as we all know in a normal fight - you won't be able to get the full "optimal rotation" due to disconnects.

For example, when you return to the mob, let's say there are 5 ticks (or 15 seconds) remaining on CT (this is pretty much after Chaos & 1x FT filler, plus the few seconds of disconnect breaking vines or whatever). This means that CT will actually fall off while you are refreshing it, if you were to do a FT filler before doing so. The alternative is to clip CT by about 2 ticks (or 5ish seconds).

What is the "threshold" in which clipping CT is better then doing an extra FT? Is it better to clip CT by a few ticks or let it fall off for 2 or so ticks?

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On another note, I think that the SS discussion that is going on is rather moot (honestly I haven't been reading much or any of it, just glanced).

In order to fully benefit from SS, you would need to stay on the same mob, or continuously use skills for a minimum of 25 GCD's (Assuming your GCD is 2.4 compared to 2.5) to be better off, and in addition your attacks hit for less. The moment you disconnect at less then 25 attacks (at a .1 second difference in GCD) your .1 GCD difference is rendered useless.

I am bad at math though.

[PArcher]

What is the "threshold" in which clipping CT is better then doing an extra FT? Is it better to clip CT by a few ticks or let it fall off for 2 or so ticks?

Probably only when you have insane Skill Speed and are able to get 2.5 FT combos + HT/PH alternates in while CT tics, not counting the time it takes to refresh CT (so, able to get 2.5 FT combos + alts in ~24 seconds, ish...which is around 12 GDC or about 2-second GDCs)

That's just speculation I put down above. But I'm sure it will only be "worth" it when you get enough SS to require fillers (Fracture says Hi) again. But then our TP cries horribly, so yeah, probably want to avoid that.

Ultimately, you'd have to do all the fun math (including HT buff) and a TON of testing on dummies. And you have to remember you must finish a combo, so that does influence this a lot...which is why I said insanely high SS is likely to cause this (and I mean sustained, not just Selene-buffed) I'm guessing the end result would be either "always do 1 CT to 2 FT, regardless of SS" or "you need to have fillers (Fracture) added to keep CT from clipping as SS goes up". Yeah, do the math with Fracture as filler too...

[Altena]

Ultimately, you'd have to do all the fun math (including HT buff) and a TON of testing on dummies. And you have to remember you must finish a combo, so that does influence this a lot...which is why I said insanely high SS is likely to cause this (and I mean sustained, not just Selene-buffed) I'm guessing the end result would be either "always do 1 CT to 2 FT, regardless of SS" or "you need to have fillers (Fracture) added to keep CT from clipping as SS goes up". Yeah, do the math with Fracture as filler too...

So basically what I understand from your post - you feel it is better to let CT fall off for 2-3 ticks then it is to clip it for about the same?

Assume you have a disconnect that lasts for half of a FT combo - so your choice is to clip it, or do your 2nd FT and let it fall off. The other part to consider is if you are letting Chaos fall off for a few ticks, you are also letting Disembowel fall off for an extra GCD on top of that - so the FT during the 2nd combo would likely not have the 10% piercing buff.

[Maxin_Rudy]

so, how should we upgrade our novus? considering that i only have acess to sold gear, i guess i should cap det and drop all (or almost all) acc in favor of crit, since cap is 495, anything above it is just worthless or should i'll be above the cap by a little just to be sure?

[Mardel]

So basically what I understand from your post - you feel it is better to let CT fall off for 2-3 ticks then it is to clip it for about the same?

Assume you have a disconnect that lasts for half of a FT combo - so your choice is to clip it, or do your 2nd FT and let it fall off. The other part to consider is if you are letting Chaos fall off for a few ticks, you are also letting Disembowel fall off for an extra GCD on top of that - so the FT during the 2nd combo would likely not have the 10% piercing buff.

Yo, do yourself a favor and just do whatever works for you. Sometimes you gotta clip it, depending on certain fights/jump/movement patterns. Just try to not reply when it CT is around 5~ just get a feel for how long your gcd is and what extra things you can squeeze in.

[whiskeybravo]

Been having some fun with an extremely low accuracy set for dungeons and primals... So low in fact, that I've actually noticed some misses from the front in lv50 Dungeons and Ex primals.. I am sad and proud at the same time lol.. Only 353 accuracy.. 504 Crit, 344 Det, and 469 SkSp.. Item level 93 build.. Would be nice if I had some 2nd coil drops to play with

[JetBrooks]

Been having some fun with an extremely low accuracy set for dungeons and primals... So low in fact, that I've actually noticed some misses from the front in lv50 Dungeons and Ex primals.. I am sad and proud at the same time lol.. Only 353 accuracy.. 504 Crit, 344 Det, and 469 SkSp.. Item level 93 build.. Would be nice if I had some 2nd coil drops to play with

I'm surprised you missed in dungeons, funny. EX Primals require T5 accuracy, right?

[whiskeybravo]

I'm surprised you missed in dungeons, funny. EX Primals require T5 accuracy, right?

Yea I was too. Just frontal attacks, and some AoEs. Quite a few misses on Halatali HM with that Gloom debuff from the second boss. I didn't notice any misses from flank or behind, though. I thought that ex primals didn't have any accuracy requirements, except Levi (moogle ex? not sure). I missed from the front on titan gaols, too. Overall I guess it's OK as long as you are flank/rear. Tanks however.. May need a bit more than 353 accuracy lol