Dragoons: A Rotation Reborn

[PArcher]

What is the "threshold" in which clipping CT is better then doing an extra FT? Is it better to clip CT by a few ticks or let it fall off for 2 or so ticks?

Probably only when you have insane Skill Speed and are able to get 2.5 FT combos + HT/PH alternates in while CT tics, not counting the time it takes to refresh CT (so, able to get 2.5 FT combos + alts in ~24 seconds, ish...which is around 12 GDC or about 2-second GDCs)

That's just speculation I put down above. But I'm sure it will only be "worth" it when you get enough SS to require fillers (Fracture says Hi) again. But then our TP cries horribly, so yeah, probably want to avoid that.

Ultimately, you'd have to do all the fun math (including HT buff) and a TON of testing on dummies. And you have to remember you must finish a combo, so that does influence this a lot...which is why I said insanely high SS is likely to cause this (and I mean sustained, not just Selene-buffed) I'm guessing the end result would be either "always do 1 CT to 2 FT, regardless of SS" or "you need to have fillers (Fracture) added to keep CT from clipping as SS goes up". Yeah, do the math with Fracture as filler too...

[Altena]

Ultimately, you'd have to do all the fun math (including HT buff) and a TON of testing on dummies. And you have to remember you must finish a combo, so that does influence this a lot...which is why I said insanely high SS is likely to cause this (and I mean sustained, not just Selene-buffed) I'm guessing the end result would be either "always do 1 CT to 2 FT, regardless of SS" or "you need to have fillers (Fracture) added to keep CT from clipping as SS goes up". Yeah, do the math with Fracture as filler too...

So basically what I understand from your post - you feel it is better to let CT fall off for 2-3 ticks then it is to clip it for about the same?

Assume you have a disconnect that lasts for half of a FT combo - so your choice is to clip it, or do your 2nd FT and let it fall off. The other part to consider is if you are letting Chaos fall off for a few ticks, you are also letting Disembowel fall off for an extra GCD on top of that - so the FT during the 2nd combo would likely not have the 10% piercing buff.

[Mardel]

So basically what I understand from your post - you feel it is better to let CT fall off for 2-3 ticks then it is to clip it for about the same?

Assume you have a disconnect that lasts for half of a FT combo - so your choice is to clip it, or do your 2nd FT and let it fall off. The other part to consider is if you are letting Chaos fall off for a few ticks, you are also letting Disembowel fall off for an extra GCD on top of that - so the FT during the 2nd combo would likely not have the 10% piercing buff.

Yo, do yourself a favor and just do whatever works for you. Sometimes you gotta clip it, depending on certain fights/jump/movement patterns. Just try to not reply when it CT is around 5~ just get a feel for how long your gcd is and what extra things you can squeeze in.

[PArcher]

So basically what I understand from your post - you feel it is better to let CT fall off for 2-3 ticks then it is to clip it for about the same?

Just to go back to this...

My CT rarely, if ever, falls off, and I use the rotation in the OP (2 Thrust combos to one CT combo, plus alternating HT and PH). It takes me making a mistake or certain fight mechanics for that to happen. Normally I reapply at, I think, 2-5 seconds remaining (0-2 tics depending on the server clock), due to my high skill speed and whether Selene is there or not (and mechanics); probably more like 2-3 seconds at reapply on average. I pretty sure when I used the T5 BiS it was normally reapplied at 1-2 seconds remaining, or even just as it fell off (which is actually the ideal).

I don't know what you're doing to have CT fall off consistently enough to assume others are doing so.


Pretty much my post said the opposite of what you thought. More SS = more actions during the CT duration. At an SS to allow 2.5 Thrust combos in the CT duration, its likely better to clip CT by that 1/2 combo time, rather than try to get a third Thrust combo in and let CT fall off or stop the Thrust combo to reapply CT at the correct time. Also, at high SS, you use filler moves, like Fracture, to keep CT up as long as possible, since you'd gain 1 extra GDC over CT's duration (at the highest SS that we can currently achieve anyway)

[Altena]

I don't know what you're doing to have CT fall off consistently enough to assume others are doing so.

Well on a straight zerg with 1 boss, no adds and pretty standard mechanics, no it generally won't fall off during the 2nd FT..
However mechanics such as T7 where you get shriek, or in T6 if you have honey and need to be devoured, getting conflag in T5 - it will generally fall off before you can finish your 2nd FT combo.

General mechanics such as breaking vines in T6, or very short disconnects in general, no it generally won't fall off during the 2nd FT. I am just more curious what people do in that instance.

Generally if Chaos is going to fall off mid FT combo and I still have to refresh HT or Phleb, then I usually just skip the 2nd FT and end up clipping it pretty heavily.

[KaldeaSahaline]

It could be because of being tp starved. Your t6/t7 and t9 doesn't seem to be lacking assuming average mechanics so it's more about the fight than your rotation. What do you pull at a dummy over 3 minutes? Are you averaging 380-390 throughout the entire fight? Or do you average higher and then drop due to certain things like not having tp?

Also you just simply don't get that much dps for gear. For reference, at a dummy I hit 350~ with i95 weapon and full i90 and now I hit like 450~ with i115 weapon and almost full i110 (minus 1 ring).

I have no idea what I pull on a dummy these days. Maybe I'll check today. I avg 380-390 at the end of the fight so naturally it was probably a bit higher prior to running dry, but I don't run my parser up over I just minimize the game post fight/wipe to check final numbers, etc.

Thanks for the response.