The number of bad players are rising!

[Foo01]

Thing is getting better should be a natural progression, isn't the whole point to play a game to be good at it ?

Actually if that is the goal, then it is more like a job/work/school. Not that it can NOT or shoul NOT happen, but it is secondary to having FUN.

FUN should be whole point. It should be fun even if people are NOT good at it, or if they are undergeared.

The problem is the elitist speedrunner are the bad players, because they are making the game less FUN for everyone else. NOT that I can NOT appreciate a run done quickly and smoothly, I like those too, but they are ruining the experience of other players by forcing to them skip cut scenes, forcing them to skip mobs, skip treasure chests, etc. etc. They even go as far as bailing in the middle of runs like this:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...arming-service.


They are abusing the duty finder. Extracting the maximum for their selfish gain at the expense of the game and community. That by definition is a bad player, because they are bad for the game and community as whole.

And those elitist jerks can NOT be bothered to teach or help other players, because they think everyone else is a leach or freeloader.

[MurakumoMillennium]

Actually if that is the goal, then it is more like a job/work/school. Not that it can NOT or shoul NOT happen, but it is secondary to having FUN.

FUN should be whole point. It should be fun even if people are NOT good at it, or if they are undergeared.

I for one would like to know some games where it's more fun to lose than to win. I bet there aren't very many of them.

The problem is the elitist speedrunner are the bad players, because they are making the game less FUN for everyone else. NOT that I can NOT appreciate a run done quickly and smoothly, I like those too, but they are ruining the experience of other players by forcing to them skip cut scenes, forcing them to skip mobs, skip treasure chests, etc. etc. They even go as far as bailing in the middle of runs

I'll agree with you on the people who stop mid dungeon and ask to be kicked or just go afk until they get kicked. But there's nothing wrong with being efficient in a dungeon via skipping trash, large pulls, skipping chests that you can go back to after, skipping CSs etc.

You say it's not fun to skip mobs, I say it's not fun to waste time killing things that don't yield exp or worthwhile drops. Who is right and who is wrong? (I'll give you a hint: it's neither).

And those elitist jerks can NOT be bothered to teach or help other players, because they think everyone else is a leach or freeloader.

There are acceptable levels of what should be taught in game. Most people are happy with explaining basic boss mechanics and such, as there's nothing in the game so difficult that it can't be explained within a couple of lines. It's when you have to teach level 50s very basic job actions that there's an issue.

Unfortunately, it's not that these "elitist jerks" aren't willing to help. Most people are willing to help. But you can only have somebody spit in your face so many times when you offer to help them that you just stop giving a @#$% and let them fail on their own.

You wouldn't believe how many times very basic advice (such as telling a DRG they should use heavy thrust, or that a BRD should use their DoTs) only to get the "DON'T TELL ME HOW 2 PLEY" or "IT WURKS 4 ME" responses. Don't stand in the fire! "HOW DARE YOU TELL ME WHAT TO DO?! DO YOU PAY FOR MY SUBSCRIPTION? REPORTED FOR HARASSMENT".

So yeah, no. You can find out what to do just like everyone else did before you.

TL: DR Those so called "elitists" are more than willing to help somebody if the person in question is willing to learn.

[Foo01]

I for one would like to know some games where it's more fun to lose than to win. I bet there aren't very many of them.

Actually there are plenty. All the competitive games, e-sport, PvP style games necessitate at winners and losers. The game can still be fun even if you lose the battle, or the race (in which case there are far more losers than winners, think Gran Turismo, or any other racing game.)

You say it's not fun to skip mobs, I say it's not fun to waste time killing things that don't yield exp or worthwhile drops. Who is right and who is wrong? (I'll give you a hint: it's neither).

You are deliberately misreading things. The default is to not skip, but the issue is people being FORCED to skip. That is the problem the speed runners are forcing other people to do things they do NOT want to and there is NOT even an attempt to negotiate a compromise because it take too much of their time.

Unfortunately, it's not that these "elitist jerks" aren't willing to help. Most people are willing to help. But you can only have somebody spit in your face so many times when you offer to help them that you just stop giving a @#$% and let them fail on their own.

You wouldn't believe how many times very basic advice (such as telling a DRG they should use heavy thrust, or that a BRD should use their DoTs) only to get the "DON'T TELL ME HOW 2 PLEY" or "IT WURKS 4 ME" responses. Don't stand in the fire! "HOW DARE YOU TELL ME WHAT TO DO?! DO YOU PAY FOR MY SUBSCRIPTION? REPORTED FOR HARASSMENT".

This complete strawman BS. Provided you are NOT trying to cuss at them when teaching them, most people will appreciate helpful suggestions, and not report harassment in response. But if you are forcing them to speed run with your veiled advice then you are harassing them and you are telling them how to play without negotiating with them as to how they would like to play.

[ispano]

Actually if that is the goal, then it is more like a job/work/school. Not that it can NOT or shoul NOT happen, but it is secondary to having FUN.

Again, stop confusing work with job(and school in this case). Work is involved with a job and/or school, but it's not the same thing.

Like it or not, this game requires you to work for what you want. Some don't wish to put in the amount of work needed, some do. Doesn't change that little fact though.

[Doo]

Actually if that is the goal, then it is more like a job/work/school. Not that it can NOT or shoul NOT happen, but it is secondary to having FUN.

I always thought when you get better, you have more fun. I.E It's more fun to be able to kill Titan ex than not. When you put in work say playing basketball and get good at it or any sports, you have more fun. Games tend to work that way.

[Foo01]

I always thought when you get better, you have more fun. I.E It's more fun to be able to kill Titan ex than not. When you put in work say playing basketball and get good at it or any sports, you have more fun. Games tend to work that way.

But this begs the question, is it fun because you are good at it? Or you are good at it because it is fun? Being good at something does NOT necessitate it being fun. And as much as I like to get better at things, fun or otherwise. Getting good at it should NOT change whether it was FUN to start with, because it should be intrinsically fun to start with.

Otherwise, you end with there is nothing to do and I am bored QQ threads. Well was it fun or not when you started? Why did getting over-geared and getting better make it less fun and? I was never any good at basketball, but it was fun, and with age I will only get more gimpy, and will it be less fun? And on the flip side, getting better at doing your 1040 forms for taxes, does NOT make taxes any more fun.

I can't tell you what it is fun, but I can certainly tell you one thing that is clearly NOT fun i.e. being told by an elitist speed runner jerk to skip the cut scene that I have never even seen before and then being left all alone trying to figure out what the heck has happened.

[Wicc]

Snip

Comparing games to taxes to win your argument is a bit of a fail.

Also, who cares if someone gets mad at you for being 'bad' or skipping a cut scene. It's simple. Get. over. it.

Obviously you keep bringing up school and work, so you have a life outside the game. So the tank gets a little pissy. Cool story. Deal with it. Because no amount of complaining on the forums is going to magically make them suddenly have an ultimatum and go 'Oh.. maybe I should be nicer now.'

[Foo01]

Comparing games to taxes to win your argument is a bit of a fail.

Also, who cares if someone gets mad at you for being 'bad' or skipping a cut scene. It's simple. Get. over. it.

Obviously you keep bringing up school and work, so you have a life outside the game. So the tank gets a little pissy. Cool story. Deal with it. Because no amount of complaining on the forums is going to magically make them suddenly have an ultimatum and go 'Oh.. maybe I should be nicer now.'

BTW, given this is tax day, and there are plenty of folks who love to game the tax system and have plenty of fun doing it. So it is absolutely NOT a fail. For those of us not in that select 1%, elitist... it might be a fail, because it is NOT fun for us, we got nothing that we can even begin to game with, in the context of a RPG, we are naked got no gear. LOL, perhaps not even allowed to create your character.

And I've got nothing against tanks. What I am against is the speed runners, whether they are DPS, healers, or tanks. And it is not just any speed runners, but those elitist jerks that forced everyone else to speed run without any other options and little or no communication or negotiation. I am agnostic to the speed run itself, provided that I been thru that dungeon more than once, and I am not undergeared. And if I am undergeared.... in which case when I am the healer and I die, there goes any speed and time you hoped to achieve. Can't do much about the mathematical limitations there.

BTW, I don't expect the jerks to get any nicer. People are people, they will do what they want. But that does NOT mean we have to take it silently. Calling out their bad behavior could hopefully deter other people from being jerks, and hopefully they could get the message and use the party finder and quit fouling up the duty finder and expecting to speed run.

My main point. You are in a group with others. If those others are on a higher level, more experience, whatever, you expect them and only them to come down to your level? You don't intend to meet them halfway at all? Because that's what you're saying. There are many different ways to "have fun", but if you're not willing to meet half way with people not like you, you're just as bad as those you complain about.

What does meeting half way mean? How some one with iLevel 50 meet halfway with iLevel 90+? How does someone get to run the dungeon at half speed run, when the speed runner doesn't even communicate? Seriously?

It is like smokers in restaurants, public indoor spaces? How do you meet these people halfway? The foul up the air and everyone else has to breathe it. That is a problem. I don't ask that smoking be made illegal, just that in public spaces with lots of others people, the smoker go smoke away from the others, go to their smoking section or outside. Similarily speed runners should do their speed runs using the party finder, and don't go to the duty finder with the unreasonable expectation that everyone else can speed run with them.

BTW it is the same elitist attitude that end up with jerks like this:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ome-errand-boy

[Wicc]

Snip.

Weren't you also upset about name calling, yet turn around and call me an elitist for not agreeing with you?
I'm stating you tried to compare video games and taxes by saying "Just because you are good at taxes doesn't make it fun."

But if you want to keep calling me names, go ahead hypocrit I'll still have fun whether you like me or not.

[ispano]

They won't delete your character.