Crafting Needs a Place in Endgame Raiding

[Penguinmayhem]

You only enjoy being able to craft the highest iLv item? You don't craft for the pure enjoyment of it?

I enjoy making people stuff that they can use.

90% of the game takes place post-level-50 and, as I explained, none of the crafted gear post-level-50 is actually useful. Hell, the game even forces an entire level 50 gear set on you for free just by doing your last two job quests so you jump straight from i40 to i50 and never need crafted gear again because why bother wasting gil when you can just spend tomes?

[NeoAmon]

I enjoy making people stuff that they can use.

90% of the game takes place post-level-50 and, as I explained, none of the crafted gear post-level-50 is actually useful. Hell, the game even forces an entire level 50 gear set on you for free just by doing your last two job quests so you jump straight from i40 to i50 and never need crafted gear again because why bother wasting gil when you can just spend tomes?

You said you enjoy making people stuff they could use yet the rest of your post says something else. Here is how I interpret it:

"Why are end game raiders spending tomes to enjoy and beat the end game content? They should be paying me for their gear not spend dem tomes".

I know you will rush here saying I misunderstood you in one way or another or I'm saying something you did not say. However, this is the truth and the way it has been since the game came out. Crafters are greedy, their enjoyment is making Gill, as much as possible. They don't care if players go ahead and buy Gill with real money to pay them. The only care here is that they are getting paid. They also would like to be able to create themselves the best gear in game without the need of ever raiding (a lot of crafters are like this as they said many times in game while chatting with them). One crafter once told me he is collecting Gill so when the times come he can buy as many Coil carry as he can...

Proof? Read that huge thread mods closed when a good amount of crafters got suspended and got their gill reduced to nothing. They all agreed that their greed has nothing to do with players buying gill.

If you guys wanted to be fair you would have asked for something reasonable, to be involved in a very restricted manner with end game instead of being the end game. You could have asked for the ability to make the best gear better by modifying it for other players, you could have asked for enchantments, you could have asked to create parts for legendary gear while the majority parts are from Coil. You could have asked to create special items that has nothing to do with end game such as mounts and pets. You could have asked for many things that won't break the end game, won't ruin raiders fun, won't make RMT thrive...but no, you won't be able to make 40+ million Gill in pure profit so all other ideas are bad and the only solution is for you to create ilvl100-110 gear.

No.

[Neofirefly]

I feel the problem with crafting is sorta the opposite of the problem in the other topic where people feel the armory system discourages alt jobs. The coil and tome lockouts mean have to specialize our battleclasses..

Players can fully max out all crafts on one character and gear them all in the best crafter gear available. This means a max crafter doesnt ever need to buy anything from another crafter.

I would like to see the master craft books or whatever be chosen.. maybe can only have 1 or 2 per character so everyone cant make everything themselves.

I feel we need some specialization in crafting to be able to make things that actually have worth.

[XNihili]

I don't mind not being able to make the very best of equipment, nor the second best. But being only able to make an equipment that is worst than the third alternative that is easy to get at the condition that you are spending tons of money and time to set materias on it is kinda disheartening.

[Kallera]

No.

How charitable, you left out that we eat lalafells and skin miqotes. Seriously we are unfairly being burdened with the blame of RMTs. Who mind you, are STILL thriving in your dungeon running theme park!

We asked for enchantments, and got a utter joke through the combination of the materia system and item limits.

We already have minions, and may yet get items related to mounts.

What we want is something more. We were advertised and designed to be our own separate classes, set apart from most other MMO which would have it as a skill number and nothing else. And yet, their economies are thriving, people produce, and look for gear in the AH as well as in the field. Desirable items should be from all aspects of play, not just one.

Having people sit on their gil and promoting only dungeon running to the detriment of All other play will only hurt the game, not the gilsellers, and it will cause all those "there is nothing to do" threads that populate the forums.

[NeoAmon]

How charitable, you left out that we eat lalafells and skin miqotes. Seriously we are unfairly being burdened with the blame of RMTs. Who mind you, are STILL thriving in your dungeon running theme park!

We asked for enchantments, and got a utter joke through the combination of the materia system and item limits.

We already have minions, and may yet get items related to mounts.

What we want is something more. We were advertised and designed to be our own separate classes, set apart from most other MMO which would have it as a skill number and nothing else. And yet, their economies are thriving, people produce, and look for gear in the AH as well as in the field. Desirable items should be from all aspects of play, not just one.

Having people sit on their gil and promoting only dungeon running to the detriment of All other play will only hurt the game, not the gilsellers, and it will cause all those "there is nothing to do" threads that populate the forums.

I would not put it past onichan lala crafter.

In any case, I have not seen any serious movement towards anything but give us best gear in game so we can enslave ffxiv player base. Read this thread and you will see that the majority of crafters want to create the best or second best gear in the game. Effectively killing the game for many of us.

You can't solve a problem by creating a new one. I never for example said crafters are fine the way they are, matter of fact I have thread suggesting a new route to involve them in end game. There are hundred of ways to improve the entire crafting system in ffxiv without killing the end game. This is what I'm trying to convey here, you ask for end game gear and many of us will fight it to the best of our limited abilities. You ask for reasonable involvement which is win win for everyone and you will find me in full supportive mode. Many others would agree with me, we don't hate crafting, we hate greed and selfishness.

[Versiroth]

It does. It's called Culinary. Otherwise, no thanks. I hated that in WOW, you were forced to gem/enchant all of your gear to be accepted into groups. In this game, people with all 50's have too many sets of armor to be forced to spend all of their gil on materia, etc for a very small (but mandatory) stat boost.

[Kallera]

It does. It's called Culinary. Otherwise, no thanks. I hated that in WOW, you were forced to gem/enchant all of your gear to be accepted into groups. In this game, people with all 50's have too many sets of armor to be forced to spend all of their gil on materia, etc for a very small (but mandatory) stat boost.

But you are not actually getting rid of the practice. Now people are not inviting you because you haven't got the relic +1, break blade or a certain ilvl.

All you have done is change the excuse.

And expensive doesn't always mean greedy. People cannot fully control how many dice rolls it took to get the items, the materia, the HQ, the melds, and a selling price that will get them a buyer in a timely fashion.

Players didn't like the low chance of getting certain gear in prior MMOs, now some are barred from ingenuity of making their own gear altogether, while endgame is funnelled into one playstyle one brand of content. How is that not greed and selfishness? How can one make a sense of community, much less a economy, out of so many restrictions?

[Eidolon]

I hope they never make crafting vital to end-game. It should be, in theory, a nice supplement, but the moment we require crafters is sort of, for me, the same as requiring PVP to PVE. I don't want to mix the two. I want PVE-endgame to be about fighting hard and earning gear, not about farming for hours to save up money to buy my Haubergeon and Noble's Tunic again.

[TheUltimate3]

But then it becomes the question, why have crafting at all? Whenever I see this kind of argument it brings the question "Why even have crafting period if it is of no use to anyone, including the person making it?"

Because having crafitng be a "supplement" while nice, means that the vast majority isn't actually going to use it.

Crafting things that have little to do with end game, in a style of game where end game is most important, means the vast majority isn't going to use it.

So why have it at all?