Crafting Needs a Place in Endgame Raiding

[Teykos]

Either way.. someone suggested earlier (it may have ever been you) a system similar to what we have for melding. Where you can commission someone to make something for you using mats in your inventory. Those mats could certainly be attained either by tome buying or raiding, and wouldn't be tradeable.. so the person getting it would -have- to have done the content. There are solutions that could work, and obviously not everything is perfect.. but there are a few with fingers in their ears that just seem to hate crafting in general.

I threw in the thought, because I read her suggestion as having untradeable raid-only components, which is worthless if the item is intended for crafting gear and the raider is not also a crafter. That just brings up the pointless argument of "I shouldn't have to raid in order to craft" into this game, which it really does not need.

[Sunarie]

I threw in the thought, because I read her suggestion as having untradeable raid-only components, which is worthless if the item is intended for crafting gear and the raider is not also a crafter. That just brings up the pointless argument of "I shouldn't have to raid in order to craft" into this game, which it really does not need.

Right, or people claiming they have to craft in order to have BiS stuff. Your solution fixes both of those. The untradeable bit is still something I personally wouldn't mind and was more at all the people shouting crafters are greedy and crap. I could care less about making money, I haven't really used my crafting in that way at all.. and I am very often the poorest person in my FC. I do care that I spent the time and energy to get all of it to 50, and it's essentially worthless to my FC now save for crafting food and potions.

[mbncd]

Altered copy of a post I've made elsewhere on the forums before:

I can understand why they don't want every BiS item to be buyable but I really don't see the harm in combinations.

BiS body and head and legs and weapons bought via new tomes, BiS accessories dropped by bosses (Coil, primals, etc), penta melded belt and boots and gloves craftable via super rare mats and master recipes.

That way you ensure that players are really doing all sorts of content and you're including both crafting and raiding at the same time.

I've never really been one for understanding the intricacies of balance, if certain BiS gear would be better obtained using one method over another or how many items should come from one source over another, but I do think some things should definitely come from a variety of sources.

As others in this thread have already suggested, bind the materials and use a request crafting feature to make them for others (and bring back request repairs at the same time).

Regarding the theory that all crafters don't care about anyone or anything other than their own gil purse:
Just to be clear, I'm not rich, nor do I have any interest in being rich. I craft things for people for a single price no matter what the item is: bring your own materials and offer whatever gil you can spare. If people bring their own mats and offer 0 gil because they can't spare any (as has often been the case while people were saving for housing, for instance) then so be it, I'll still do my best to make their item HQ and give it to them. I'm certainly not alone in this practice (it's quite common actually) and it's rather sad if your only experience with crafters has been negative but that does not mean that everyone in the world is malicious and selfish. Try to meet more people, talk to people in your LS and/or FC, talk to people in PF groups or hanging around towns/camps, etc. There are a lot of reasonable crafters out there only too willing to help if you can provide your own mats. Some crafters are even willing to provide mats of their own and give away things for free, at least on legacy servers where more people seem to have a stockpile of cash from what I've seen, though I followed the same practices in 1.xx too so don't have that either XD

Please don't make sweeping statements of the greed (or anything else) of other people. There really is no need for it.

[NeoAmon]

I love you guys . You keep proving every single point I talked about.

"I MUST CRAFT ILVL100+ NOTHING ELSE MATTERS"

This is the issue from the start, being able to craft the second BiS or first is absolutely unacceptable. Even if you are able to only craft one piece per week, this is still unacceptable, even if you can't sell it, it is still unacceptable.

Crafting should never be anyone free ticket to get away from tomes or raids, or be a way to quickly skip part of the progression into the next one. Why are you incapable of suggestion anything but ilvl100+ gear...

I know why and I have repeated it many times already, laziness & greed.

[Susanoh]

I love you guys . You keep proving every single point I talked about.

"I MUST CRAFT ILVL100+ NOTHING ELSE MATTERS"

This is the issue from the start, being able to craft the second BiS or first is absolutely unacceptable. Even if you are able to only craft one piece per week, this is still unacceptable, even if you can't sell it, it is still unacceptable.

Crafting should never be anyone free ticket to get away from tomes or raids, or be a way to quickly skip part of the progression into the next one. Why are you incapable of suggestion anything but ilvl100+ gear...

I know why and I have repeated it many times already, laziness & greed.

Already many have made suggestions other than crafting making all level 100 gear. The post above yours for example makes a suggestion that different high level equipment should come from different content, which is a fine suggestion that would keep every level of content relevant rather than just a few.

I mentioned this earlier but I'll mention it again. Having high level equipment coming from multiple levels of content would give players more ways to obtain that high level equipment after they run the grand total of one end game instance and cap your tomes for the week. Having some (not all) of the high level equipment in the game being rare, highly sought after, and crafted wouldn't give people less things to do. It would actually give them more things to do, as it would provide an alternative to work on after you participate in dungeon/raid activity. Players who want multiple options for high level equipment aren't asking to skip content, they're asking for more content to be relevant. No one is saying "high level equipment should be 100% crafted, 0% dungeons," they're saying both should be relevant. Raiders who think all other content should be irrelevant are the ones asking to skip content. People who think that i90 progression for the week would better consist of "Run your instances and cap tomes for the week and log off" are far lazier than people who would be willing to dedicate the time to participating in all the content that the game has to offer even if it wasn't as time efficient, and not limit yourself to raid content and nothing else in terms of progression.

[NeoAmon]

Snip

I would love for every content in the game to be relevant. I would love for crafting to get an overhaul and be more beneficial to everyone. Also having more gear options is always positive as I'm big on customisation.

All of that is good, all of that is wanted but then how you do it is the issue. Gill can't be beginning or the end of it, period. The system whatever it is can't allow crafters or anyone easy access to progression or have any advantage against the other options (tomes or coil drops). The key word here is variety. The moment ilvl100 is craft-able is the same exact moment tomes gear becomes garbage. Why because HQ crafting will provide the same main stat + customization making it by default superior.

Buying crafting mats with Myth or the new tomes is also not ideal as it is going to be based on Gill, once more Gill can't be involved in end game. So how do you go about it? how do you make crafting relevant?

Easy, customization. I'm not talking about melding here, I'm talking about the ability to be able to modify someone gear. Player A just got his hand on Allagan 2 chest but he does not like the stats, he visit onichan crafter and ask him to modify it for him.

How does he goes about modifying it? Crafting a one time rare tools with fail chance that does not effect the Allagan item but rather the tools. The crafter ability should be effected by being a master crafter and having skills from different crafting classes.

This method enforce the need of doing Coil, allow crafters to have a huge role, make some cash based on the crafter ability as the rare tools can cost 200k+, no one can skip contents, no one can cheat their way up using Gill.

[Susanoh]

I would love for every content in the game to be relevant. I would love for crafting to get an overhaul and be more beneficial to everyone. Also having more gear options is always positive as I'm big on customisation.

All of that is good, all of that is wanted but then how you do it is the issue. Gill can't be beginning or the end of it, period. The system whatever it is can't allow crafters or anyone easy access to progression or have any advantage against the other options (tomes or coil drops). The key word here is variety. The moment ilvl100 is craft-able is the same exact moment tomes gear becomes garbage. Why because HQ crafting will provide the same main stat + customization making it by default superior.

Buying crafting mats with Myth or the new tomes is also not ideal as it is going to be based on Gill, once more Gill can't be involved in end game. So how do you go about it? how do you make crafting relevant?

Easy, customization. I'm not talking about mats here, I'm talking about the ability to be able to modify someone gear. Player A jus got his hand on Allagan 2 chest but he does not like the stats, he visit onichan crafter and ask him to modify it for him.

How does he goes about modifying it? Crafting a one time rare tools with fail chance that does not effect the Allagan item but rather the tools. The crafter ability should be effected by being a master crafter and having skills from different crafting classes.

This method enforce the need of doing Coil, allow crafters to have a huge role, make some cash based on the crafter ability as the rare tools can cost 200k+, no one can skip contens, no one can cheat their way using Gill.

I wouldn't be against something like this either, although I personally also wouldn't turn down the possibility of having items that are relevant on the market. If finished products were in demand, then resources would be in demand, and this could allow for more things to do for crafters, gatherers and combat jobs. Giving players who make gil the opportunity to buy some (not all) good equipment isn't "easy access" any more than the guy who spams faceroll dungeons and buys tome items is "easy access." In either case, the player has to put in some time to finish their goals.

If it's the fear that players can go to RMT and have access to crafting equipment that makes you against allowing any high level equipment on the market, people can already do in essence the same thing as long as people continue to sell wins in in game instances. They may as well just tear down the whole game or remove currency entirely if that's the deciding factor.

[Issac]

Why was my post silently deleted by mods? There was nothing offensive stated in it.

[Zumi]

Good chance that you will have to make a crafted weapons are a part of the Zodiac quest, since there is a bunch of crafted weapons in the patch notes that take dungeon drops from the looks of it. Probably similar to relics, if so you can make a ton of gil with this.

[Appleh4x]

Well the i70 crafted accessories were actually really good/better in some's opinions than the i90 counterparts when pentamelded. The real issue with the new 3 star crafted items is THERE IS NO ACCESSORIES. That's right, all you tanks that were having fun with your exra str melded on the rings prepare to not have fun and be just like the other VIT only stacking sheep.