I hate the idea of Echo Buff. It should be part of some easy server not whole game.

[Velox]

snip

I've got dem mad gaming skillz yo. I can press the 2 key faster and harder than anyone alive! You other people need to get gud.
Seriously, being an elitist in a "video game" is like getting first place in a race of three people. You may feel like you accomplished something, but to everyone else watching, it's just sad.

[KaiserFire]

I don't think "quit or get better" is a very good business strategy for SE. I'm not for or against the Echo Buff, but it is smart of them to keep as many players as possible progressing through their content with each update. Not to mention that without the segment of the population that some people around here refer to as "being bad", there wouldn't be a game to play at all. As a developer, SE has to consider the needs of the entire community. It would be nice if players did not lose sight of the big picture and retreat into their own little corners whenever these updates/balance issues come up.

[Amberion]

It would be nice if players did not lose sight of the big picture and retreat into their own little corners whenever these updates/balance issues come up.

If these issues continue piling up, eventually that player and like minded people will leave. And well, if they don't express their concerns, S-E would have no clue why they suddenly lose customers.

Not to mention that without the segment of the population that some people around here refer to as "being bad"

Sure it would, there are many games that don't cater as hard to "bads" as S-E. SE has taken it to an extreme IMO.
Well... maybe the game wouldn't be here. It's to Theme Park/Dress Up Barbie for it to drive in that crowd that would have played.

[Ricky]

hopefully you can toggle it off like regen/protect.

I haven't done T5 yet so I really would like a full experience.

Perhaps echo in DF only? IDRK how to have a compromise with this one :/

If you haven't already done it you never will, the original experience means i90 gear at maximum and coming in with higher gear is similar to having the Echo buff

[HaiHai]

I've got dem mad gaming skillz yo. I can press the 2 key faster and harder than anyone alive! You other people need to get gud.
Seriously, being an elitist in a "video game" is like getting first place in a race of three people. You may feel like you accomplished something, but to everyone else watching, it's just sad.

This may come as a shock to you, but some people like to actually challenge themselves to be better than others. It's called being competitive. Not everyone can be as accepting of mediocrity as you are.

"Who cares anyway right?"... is usually always spoken by the guy at the bottom.

[Djeserit]

This may come as a shock to you, but some people like to actually challenge themselves to be better than others. It's called being competitive. Not everyone can be as accepting of mediocrity as you are.

"Who cares anyway right?"... is usually always spoken by the guy at the bottom.

If you wanted to be competitive, you would have downed T5 about 4-5 months ago, and the extreme primals the first week of 2.1

The time for competition on 2.0/2.1 content has long since past, just let it go.

So because I joined a month ago, I'm automatically screwed out of enjoying content the way it was originally intended to be played? I don't care about gear, or status, or any of that crap, yet just because I wasn't here day 1, I'm not allowed to enjoy a challenging experience? I know it might be hard for you to see past your own experiences, but not everyone has been playing since 1.0's beta. Not every newbie is inept at playing the game. So just because I'm 'late' to the party, my enjoyment of the game is invalid? And I'M the selfish one for wanting content to stay as it is? Unbelievable.

There are ways to make the game more challenging for yourself. Go in with the bare minimum ilevel required for entry, turn off all echo buffs you may receive, hell do it naked if you want.

If you want a challenging experience, then be creative and give yourself a challenge.

As the person below you said: there are plenty of people who think the same way as you. Find them, group with them, have your cake and let everyone else have theirs too.

[Onyxleo]

If you wanted to be competitive, you would have downed T5 about 4-5 months ago, and the extreme primals the first week of 2.1

The time for competition on 2.0/2.1 content has long since past, just let it go.

So because I joined a month ago, I'm automatically screwed out of enjoying content the way it was originally intended to be played? I don't care about gear, or status, or any of that crap, yet just because I wasn't here day 1, I'm not allowed to enjoy a challenging experience? I know it might be hard for you to see past your own experiences, but not everyone has been playing since 1.0's beta. Not every newbie is inept at playing the game. So just because I'm 'late' to the party, my enjoyment of the game is invalid? And I'M the selfish one for wanting content to stay as it is? Unbelievable.



All of this "Give yourself" nonsense, as if having 7 other party members abusing the echo with 30% buffs isn't going to make a difference to my experience? And are you seriously implying that if I strolled into an extreme fight as a naked Dragoon, I wouldn't instantly get removed for trolling? That's an absolutely ridiculous 'solution' that doesn't even address my issue with this system. Come on, be real here.

[Oscillate_Wildly]

So because I joined a month ago, I'm automatically screwed out of enjoying content the way it was originally intended to be played? I don't care about gear, or status, or any of that crap, yet just because I wasn't here day 1, I'm not allowed to enjoy a challenging experience? I know it might be hard for you to see past your own experiences, but not everyone has been playing since 1.0's beta. Not every newbie is inept at playing the game. So just because I'm 'late' to the party, my enjoyment of the game is invalid? And I'M the selfish one for wanting content to stay as it is? Unbelievable.

You can turn the buff off. There you go. There's your challenge. The Echo isn't mandatory, and if you cant put forth the effort to find your own party where everyone shares your ideals, a static even, then I honestly can't say you're trying your best.There are people out there like you, you can find them and you can challenge whatever the hell you want at your own difficulty. Whatever that means to you. You can even go in with full DL for the full experience.

Also if you really did join a month ago, the content you've done isn't the same level of difficulty or challenge as it once was.

Quite a bit has been nerfed to hell and back. I don't know how long ago the Moogle Mog fight was but has since been nerfed since 2.1
Someone just joining during 2.2 wouldn't fucking know the difference.

[Pibz]

Who cares? You can disable it, its obsolete content anyway the small(really small) % that will be running it for fun will just disable it if they want.

[Ilenya]

Those players would have a point and a stance if this game required a large time investment. As it stands, you can clear Turns 1-5 in an hour and all EX Primals in the same time. What remains is players that simply lack the skill, and worse, lack the desire to improve, and want the game brought down to their level rather than improve themselves.

As someone who doesn't want things handed to him and has yet to clear *any* turns of Coil, I'm going to point out you are missing a group of people. The ones who, because of "Experienced Only" don't get a chance to try these things. I've never run turn 2-5 because I've never beat turn 1, but I won't jump into random Turn 1 groups expecting a clear because I haven't had the chance to clear it myself. I have been on 2 teams that were okay with new players since I started bothering with it.

It's certainly not a lack of desire to improve, and I consider myself at least good enough to not get everyone killed repeatedly, but I won't burden teams unwilling to work with people who aren't entirely sure of everything just so I can get ahead. It's not fair to them.

I'm not a big fan of how the Coil buff is set up, personally. I would think setting it similar to the EX-Primals would make more sense. That way the people who want it as similar to pre-2.2 Coil can keep that, and the people who would prefer something to help as fails happen would have that, without there being the two wide extremes.