Ifrit EX and future content

[Mitsukai123]

I'm pretty sure that Ifrit enraging when you have a lot of dps on him is just an urban legend.

http://www.twitch.tv/mitsukai12345/c/3453030

You were saying?

[Gilthas]

This is the dumbest advice I have ever heard. So what you're saying is to CONTROL your DPS so that its mediocore? lol

This is the problem with DPS mentality nowadays, the concept of restraining yourself for strategic reasons is a foreign concept to them.

[Ryuko]

I once did this with 3 SMNs. We kept triggering hellfire way too soon and glitching him -- even on the 2nd set of nails. (He'd literally spawn them and then IMMEDIATELY hellfire before we even had a chance to kill them). After wiping a few times to having too much dps, we started letting our dots fall off Ifrit near the time when nails would spawn. It's silly that we had to do that, but... that's how we managed to win. It was a farm party too and we died a few times to this failsafe before just giving up and letting dots fall. XD

[SarcasmMisser]

This is the problem with DPS mentality nowadays, the concept of restraining yourself for strategic reasons is a foreign concept to them.

Right but for Ifrit it is not strategic, they just straight up wipe you if you do too much damage. It's a dumb mechanic that could of been done way better and it's obviously lazy. Why not have nails buff Ifrit so it has more effective HP than the nails combined? It makes racing harder but gives skilled groups some new ground to break with different compositions. The enrage just stonewalls everything not to SE's plan and gives no incentive to push the limits of the fight.

Strategic is holding DPS so you know there won't be a conflag happening when twintania goes into divebombs, there's risk and reward to either choice. Ifrit is a straight up wipe to preserve unimpressive boss mechanics.

[Gilthas]

Why not have nails buff Ifrit so it has more effective HP than the nails combined? It makes racing harder but gives skilled groups some new ground to break with different compositions.

Because this would change absolutely nothing since the DPS would still just go all out.

Just because the situation with Ifrit Ex is a straight up wipe doesn't mean that it's not strategic to rein in the DPS. Stopping or slowing down damage should be one of the tactics that the game asks for so DPS actually have to pay attention to what they're doing instead of going for 1st place in the e-peen race.

What if it required 6 DPS like Titan speedkills? It's well designed when it is actually harder than doing it the vanilla way. Seeing how DPS in pugs fail the nail check so often, and I actually suggested that Ifrit needs more DPS than that, why would the latter be the easier option?

If you need to bring extra DPS, what does this mean for heals, or tanks, or how phases are pushed? These things are interesting, and Ifrit em needs to be a more interesting fight.

Because, once again, the strategy for the DPS is always the same: "kill it as fast as you can". Having a mechanic like this actually introduces something new to think about: "maybe we shouldn't go all out on this one".

[SarcasmMisser]

What if it required 6 DPS like Titan speedkills? It's well designed when it is actually harder than doing it the vanilla way. Seeing how DPS in pugs fail the nail check so often, and I actually suggested that Ifrit needs more DPS than that, why would the latter be the easier option?

If you need to bring extra DPS, what does this mean for heals, or tanks, or how phases are pushed? These things are interesting, and Ifrit em needs to be a more interesting fight.

It could also make holding DPS a strategic decision, which is what you would like to see more of yes? Do you go the hard route and go all out record breaking DPS, or play it safe and do the nails normally? Strategy is applying choices, there is no choice in the current design.

[Taei]

This is the problem with DPS mentality nowadays, the concept of restraining yourself for strategic reasons is a foreign concept to them.

No, it's not a mentality issue. There are certain fights that yes you should restrain you DPS. But for this particular instance, Ifrit SHOULD NOT ENRAGE just because you are doing damage to him + the nails at the same time.

To restrain dps in this manner really ruins the game and it ruins it for people that are trying maximize their gameplay and skill. Basically what you are suggesting is that we should all just do mediocre damage and not try to strive for better gameplay and skills then by simply putting in a mechanic that disallows this. (a seemingly broken mechanic IMO). LOOK AT THE FIGHT, ITS NOT FOR STRATEGIC REASONS LOL.

[Gilthas]

To restrain dps in this manner really ruins the game and it ruins it for people that are trying maximize their gameplay and skill. Basically what you are suggesting is that we should all just do mediocre damage and not try to strive for better gameplay and skills then by simply putting in a mechanic that disallows this. (a seemingly broken mechanic IMO). LOOK AT THE FIGHT, ITS NOT FOR STRATEGIC REASONS LOL.

See this is the problem, for you maximizing skill as a DPS is doing max amount of damage, so obviously a mechanic that prevents you from doing it is considered a broken mechanic.

I disagree. For me maximizing skill as a DPS is doing max amount of damage without killing the party.

[SarcasmMisser]

Just because the situation with Ifrit Ex is a straight up wipe doesn't mean that it's not strategic to rein in the DPS. Stopping or slowing down damage should be one of the tactics that the game asks for so DPS actually have to pay attention to what they're doing instead of going for 1st place in the e-peen race.

Honestly our heart is in the same place, what I'm also arguing for is more varied skill checks for DPS. They actually exist in the game already as someone already stated, Twintania and Titan EM and there it's all about risk vs reward which is a better way to design it. DPS that actually output to their job's potential are quite rare in pugs, it's just that the DPS checks in this game aren't that strong at max gear. So the best way to design it is have options, you can throttle or you can go full broadside, but there has to be risk vs reward and if you go the latter you better be breaking records or it's going to be a world of pain.


Ifrit is not a strong skill check, it asks for unimpressive DPS on the nails and when a group tries to min-max the fight Ifrit wipes you. It should allow for interesting options if your DPS is top class, but if you regard min maxing DPS as e-peen I'm not sure how interested you would be in that.

[Jynx]

A good whitemage needs to know when to not heal, a good DPS should know when to not do damage to a specific target.