The Monk Temple

[EasymodeX]

Demo ticks for very high. Losing Demo ticks by waiting is not worth the %buff to Demo damage you gain by waiting.

Especially since you will/should recast Demo after the PB anyways, so you will clip some of the total DoT. Delaying the first Demo just means you'll clip more.

Not 100% positive but I think the sequence should come out as:

[PB]: DM SP SP DK TW
[Post-PB]: BS TR DM

GL3 should be maintained across the DK-TW-BS-TR, although that's something you want to verify in game.

[Inox]

Demo ticks for very high. Losing Demo ticks by waiting is not worth the %buff to Demo damage you gain by waiting.

Especially since you will/should recast Demo after the PB anyways, so you will clip some of the total DoT. Delaying the first Demo just means you'll clip more.

Not 100% positive but I think the sequence should come out as:

[PB]: DM SP SP DK TW
[Post-PB]: BS TR DM

GL3 should be maintained across the DK-TW-BS-TR, although that's something you want to verify in game.

Thanks so much man!

[Shayuki]

Demo ticks for very high. Losing Demo ticks by waiting is not worth the %buff to Demo damage you gain by waiting.

Especially since you will/should recast Demo after the PB anyways, so you will clip some of the total DoT. Delaying the first Demo just means you'll clip more.

Not 100% positive but I think the sequence should come out as:

[PB]: DM SP SP DK TW
[Post-PB]: BS TR DM

GL3 should be maintained across the DK-TW-BS-TR, although that's something you want to verify in game.

I disagree.

This opening is clipping Demolish DoT and the first one with no buffs isn't that strong anyway. In my opinion, it's much better to open with ToD(Perfect Balance) -> Snap Punch(Blood for Blood) -> Snap Punch (Raging Strikes) -> Demolish -> Dragon Kick -> Twin Snakes -> Bootshine -> True Strike -> Snap Punch -> Fracture -> Dragon Kick -> Twin Snakes -> Demolish -> Bootshine -> True Strike -> Snap Punch -> ToD. This lets the first Demolish be much better buffed and also allows you to not clip the DoT at all. It times perfectly. I guess you -could- save the Blood for Blood and Infernal Release for later so that they are used for the second Demolish, but to be honest I think that you gain more DPS overall if their cooldowns are ticking as soon as possible.

While my highest maintainable DPS is just barely above 300 with my gear, with this opening I'm at above 300 DPS right after I'm done with this. It's quite a bit better than what you're suggesting according to my testing.

Maybe starting with the ToD before PB could perhaps not be optimal but it shouldn't be bad by any means, makes use of the Perfect Balance being off GCD, and makes sure you have enough time to get into position.

I do believe he says in his video the same thing. If you aren't opening with perfect balance put ToD up first. But I am curious whether opening with ToD (without PB) is considered less than optimal due to slowing down your stacking of GL, but I'd assume ToD's damage over the time you are stacking GL makes up for the single GCD you spent before starting to stack it. I don't have any math either but it sounds pretty negligible to me assuming it's even a loss.

Well actually, according to my tests when you're not starting with Greased Lightning, it's a DPS loss to start with ToD, whereas when starting with PB, you usually can use the ToD while getting into position anyway. Perhaps it is bad even then, in which case I would just not use ToD at the start and replace the facture with the ToD after the first snap punch after PB.

[Lemon8or]

ToD(Perfect Balance) -> Snap Punch(Blood for Blood) -> Snap Punch (Raging Strikes)

I stopped reading there.

[MrDiezel]

I stopped reading there.

Wow I didnt even catch that... bahahaha!

[EasymodeX]

I disagree.

This opening is clipping Demolish DoT and the first one with no buffs isn't that strong anyway.

Using a 'late' DM (SP SP DM) delays the DM by roughly 4.8s, which means you lose 1.5 ticks of the DoT, a loss of 60p-ish. You gain 18% damage on the total DoT value, roughly .18*40*6 = 43.2-ish and 18% on the direct damage, +12.6. However, where you gain 18% on the DM, you lose 18% on the SP which you move ahead 2 slots, a loss of .18*180 = 32. Gain: 55.8; loss: 92. The other benefit is the avoidance of the clipping.

However, this is more difficult to model and would require a more robust DPS assessment. Avoiding the clipping means you delay your DM timing throughout the rest of your engagement. I actually put together a "MNK opener" model but I'm not 100% confident that the results are accurate.

Edit: Need to review and sit on it for a bit.

[Ricdeau]

I disagree.

This opening is clipping Demolish DoT and the first one with no buffs isn't that strong anyway. In my opinion, it's much better to open with ToD(Perfect Balance) -> Snap Punch(Blood for Blood) -> Snap Punch (Raging Strikes) -> Demolish -> Dragon Kick -> Twin Snakes -> Bootshine -> True Strike -> Snap Punch -> Fracture -> Dragon Kick -> Twin Snakes -> Demolish -> Bootshine -> True Strike -> Snap Punch -> ToD. This lets the first Demolish be much better buffed and also allows you to not clip the DoT at all. It times perfectly. I guess you -could- save the Blood for Blood and Infernal Release for later so that they are used for the second Demolish, but to be honest I think that you gain more DPS overall if their cooldowns are ticking as soon as possible.

I'm guessing meant Internal Release? Because we certainly don't have Raging Strikes.

If you open your PB combo with Demo then by the time you do your first standard rotation you will be refreshing Demo pretty much right on time. There's should be little to no clipping. Using Demo later in a PB combo would actually be worse because you'd either let an under powered Demo tick out it's duration or you'd clip it with a stronger one sooner.

I personally like to do PB: DM SP DK TW SP then ToD and then lead right into BS TS DM. Timing on the Demo falls pretty much right in line with when the none buffed one is ending.

[Viridiana]

Demo ticks for very high. Losing Demo ticks by waiting is not worth the %buff to Demo damage you gain by waiting.

This is basically my logic for asking why we don't open with Demo. In the time it takes to go through the rotation twice and get your third stack of GL (where people say to use Demo), your first Demo could already have done more damage than Snap Punch would have.

[Allyrion]

This is basically my logic for asking why we don't open with Demo. In the time it takes to go through the rotation twice and get your third stack of GL (where people say to use Demo), your first Demo could already have done more damage than Snap Punch would have.

When you don't use a PB opener, you're definitely. I'm not sure about PB, but you're asking about non-PB starting anyway.
Using Demo for the first GL stack will be a dps increase. I wouldn't use it for the second stack though, if you somehow mess up and SP the first.
Otherwise, it'll be falling off by the time you've got 3 stacks and you're ready to refresh it again.

It shouldn't even clip unless you've got an incredible amount of Skill Speed.
So it's pretty unquestionable.