Make FFXIV more like FFXI and less like WoW

[MageBlack]

You misunderstood me.

I didn't mean to say you brought up WoW. And that post you linked was not what I was referring to. I was saying you brought up the reasoning that they designed Final Fantasy 14 the way they did because they did not want to compete with themselves for subscriptions.

My point was that they already are competing with themselves for subscriptions. So I don't think that was a good reason to completely abandon 11's design and instead imitate WoW's.

You obviously disagree. And that is fine

Fair enough. I wasnt using that as an excuse exactly. I was just asking the question, "Why would they want to compete with themselves for subs."

I think if they were to have made a similar game to FFXI in core systems and gameplay, they would have had to retire the older one and completely shut it down, the cost of continuing to run those servers would end up outweighing the income they would receive. I do concede your point that they are already competing with themselves for sub to an extent, and I dont think its the reason they are not putting in certain systems that are close to what FFXI had. I know why they arent. Back when they were deciding what to do with FFXIV after its initial flop and the new Dev team took over, they did a series of player polls asking the community what they wanted to see, what they didnt want to see, and what they liked about the current game etc. Through those polls and research of their own by playing popular games out there and from their own personal experiences with older MMO's (Yoshi-P was a big fan of DaoC and UO, so expect to see some systems from them come in, he talked about a few things like housing and PvP).

So, they are taking influence from popular games, player input and personal experiences to try and make a themepark style MMO. I do reccommend looking up the old players polls Players Poll 1 results Players Poll 2 results And I cant find it right now but there was a great LftP a long time ago where he clearly went through his vision for the game and what he wanted to accomplish. So far, he has been holding pretty close to that vision and I'm not dissatisfied with the results. Could more systems come in and make it better? Probably! Does that justify the over-reactive "Make it like (blank) or it will fail!!" posts? No. Sorry for commenting but seeing post after post like that then logging into the game and seeing every area of the game full of players really seems to contradict one another.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion I guess and sorry for arguing about it. All I wanted was you to at least acknowledge that you understood my position and that it does makes sense, even if you disagree.

I was saying you brought up the reasoning that they designed Final Fantasy 14 the way they did because they did not want to compete with themselves for subscriptions.

This is not what I was saying at all. Let me try and make it even clearer by changing my comment "to make FFXIV more like FFXI would further steal subs from FFXI and compete with themselves." hope this makes things clearer. It is a true statement and as nothing to do with all the qualifiers you keep adding to it. i said nothing about what you said in your quote. My original statement was short, clear and to the point.

EDIT:
Afterthought, sorry.
my questions was a response to "Make FFXIV more like FFXI and less like WoW" If they were to do that, who's subs would they be competing with?

[Dale]

my questions was a response to "Make FFXIV more like FFXI and less like WoW" If they were to do that, who's subs would they be competing with?."
?

In theory yes, if they were to make Final Fantasy 14 more like 11 it would likely take even more subscriptions from the game than it already is. But as I said, it's already taking subscriptions from the game now. So the damage to 11 is being done regardless, and we are just debating to what degree.

But like I said in an earlier post, I would have preferred Final Fantasy 14 to be designed as a true sequel to predecessor. A game that would ultimately replace Final Fantasy 11 entirely and give players who want an alternative to WoW somewhere else to go that isn't over a decade old. And to touch on your earlier comments - that would also be the best way to ensure that they are not competing with themselves for subscriptions.

But that didn't happen and instead SE opted to copy WoW. And that is what has players like me disgruntled. Because we were hoping for an alternative to WoW that at least resembled 11 in terms of design and structure.

[Gideon]

But that didn't happen and instead SE opted to copy WoW. And that is what has players like me disgruntled. Because we were hoping for an alternative to WoW that at least resembled 11 in terms of design and structure.

You're still ignoring the fact that every numerical entry into the FF universe has been vastly different from its predecessors. They've all had some carry over (races,chocobos, themes, etc) but, combat, progression, etc has all been completely different.

And you havent addressed the fact FFXI 2.0 would actually negatively impact the success of FFXIV (given the peak subscriptions of each).

[Dale]

You're still ignoring the fact that every numerical entry into the FF universe has been vastly different from its predecessors. They've all had some carry over (races,chocobos, themes, etc) but, combat, progression, etc has all been completely different.

And you havent addressed the fact FFXI 2.0 would actually negatively impact the success of FFXIV (given the peak subscriptions of each).

I'm not ignoring anything. I just don't agree with you. There is a difference.

I played Final Fantasy 4~10 and all of them resembled each other and were not vastly different from its predecessors. And Final Fantasy 14 isn't vastly different from its predecessor either. It's just that it's predecessor is WoW and not Final Fantasy 11.

[Doo]

You're still ignoring the fact that every numerical entry into the FF universe has been vastly different from its predecessors. They've all had some carry over (races,chocobos, themes, etc) but, combat, progression, etc has all been completely different.

Not really they just try to improve on the old systems. Relic - materia - junction system - sphere grid- license board. It's not vastly different more like different takes on older systems.

[Magis]

You're still ignoring the fact that every numerical entry into the FF universe has been vastly different from its predecessors. They've all had some carry over (races,chocobos, themes, etc) but, combat, progression, etc has all been completely different.

And you havent addressed the fact FFXI 2.0 would actually negatively impact the success of FFXIV (given the peak subscriptions of each).

Story wise yes, gameplay wise no?

FF I-X had the same battle systems more or less. Turn based, with a few new features added in (materia, limit breaks, swapping characters). They built ONTOP of what they created.

FFXI and (from what I heard) XII had the same system, one being a forced change because turn based battles doesn't work in a real time MMO.

[Reoin05]

"You're still ignoring the fact that every numerical entry into the FF universe has been vastly different from its predecessors. They've all had some carry over (races,chocobos, themes, etc) but, combat, progression, etc has all been completely different.

And you havent addressed the fact FFXI 2.0 would actually negatively impact the success of FFXIV (given the peak subscriptions of each). "

Apparently you have not played many of the FF series, most of them are quite alike with little changes, most of them for the better or to give you a new "feel" to the game. FFXI took a turn based system and made it flow, it was still nearly like the others in the menu operation even through battle. I completely agree with some of the above posters, FFXIV has chosen to be a WoW follower and not follow FFXI.

And yes FFXI was difficult, sometimes overly, but that's what was great about it. It gave you something to strive for, and had tons of content to keep you busy even if you could not obtain or do the "harder" content.

3rd- to say that it would actually negatively impact subscriptions? Most people keep all accounts active or move from one to another, so they really don't lose anyone, and on top of that FFXI is not far from death, meaning they will lose those people forever if they don't.

[Vandark]

You're still ignoring the fact that every numerical entry into the FF universe has been vastly different from its predecessors. They've all had some carry over (races,chocobos, themes, etc) but, combat, progression, etc has all been completely different.

And you havent addressed the fact FFXI 2.0 would actually negatively impact the success of FFXIV (given the peak subscriptions of each).

Your wrong most of the older FF series had very slight differences in the combat mostly in ways that impacted the way you advance and layed out/ applyed your skills and abilities that aside the battle systems were always turn based and had very close similarities.

The only FF games that started to become really different are FF12 and FF13 taking on a more automated battle that the majority disliked due to becoming accustomed to their fav style of combat within the series.
Yet even those two titles FF12 and FF13 remained in some way turn based with close resemblances to the previous titles, as a matter of fact FF12 was very alike to FFXI in its open world combat, NM’s and with characters able to progress in all weapon choices while remaining in some form turn based.

The Final Fantasy series until recent have always kept to the series, FF14 the original was still a slower paced strategy system which resembled the gaming style of the previous games.
If it doesn’t play like Final Fantasy I’m sorry but that is no longer a complete Final Fantasy experience.

[Gilthas]

If it doesn’t play like Final Fantasy I’m sorry but that is no longer a complete Final Fantasy experience.

The only reason you're saying that this doesn't play like a FF is because it doesn't use the same system that FFXI had.

The game sure feels like playing a FF to me. Getting to use abilities a lot more often than in FFXI just makes the game more fun to me, not less FF.

[MageBlack]

In theory yes, if they were to make Final Fantasy 14 more like 11 it would likely take even more subscriptions from the game than it already is. But as I said, it's already taking subscriptions from the game now. So the damage to 11 is being done regardless, and we are just debating to what degree.

But like I said in an earlier post, I would have preferred Final Fantasy 14 to be designed as a true sequel to predecessor. A game that would ultimately replace Final Fantasy 11 entirely and give players who want an alternative to WoW somewhere else to go that isn't over a decade old. And to touch on your earlier comments - that would also be the best way to ensure that they are not competing with themselves for subscriptions.

But that didn't happen and instead SE opted to copy WoW. And that is what has players like me disgruntled. Because we were hoping for an alternative to WoW that at least resembled 11 in terms of design and structure.

Fair enough, I think we have worked out what each of us meant. Thats all I wanted. I agree, damage has been done but it was inevitable. I think something you are not really aware of is that each numbered installment of the Final Fantasy franchise plays differently. That is a fundamental feature of the franchise along with each installment being in its own unique world. The only way you would have gotten what you are asking for in a similar experience to FFXI that was built on its strengths and ironed out weaknesses would be if there was a FFXI-2. Its the only time that a FF game has used the same world and built upon its preceding systems.

It does not sound like you are a big FF fan and more of an MMO fan, so i understand why you may have these expectations. In my opinion, as a fan of the FF franchise, this is a great installment in the series and live up to all the expectation I have for such a game, moreso than FFXI did. I played both and I much prefer ARR to FFXI from a FF fan perspective. I dont have much MMO background but I see so many people talking about all their expertise and expectation on the MMO genre but they all see to forget the the second half of the acronym; RPG. I really like that there is a much heavier focus on the RPG elements, story, classic jobs, classic experiences (the nods to older FF games), and the less competitive atmosphere this game has.

There were things I did like about FFXI and I have no problems seeing some things make an appearance in this FF, but overall, i'm glad its not a sequel to FFXI in how it plays. If it was then I doubt it would have gained much more of a following than their first MMO did, and that would have been sad.