Make FFXIV more like FFXI and less like WoW

[Gramul]

Exactly! Players ask for change then when they get something different they complain.

"change" is an extremely broad and open ended term. However, when I asked for "changes to FINAL FANTASY XIV that would drastically alter the rules already set in Eorzea" in the poling, I expected actual change from the typical formula. Not the same basic setup we've seen a million times before.

[Vandark]

"change" is an extremely broad and open ended term. However, when I asked for "changes to FINAL FANTASY XIV that would drastically alter the rules already set in Eorzea" in the poling, I expected actual change from the typical formula. Not the same basic setup we've seen a million times before.

Amen to that! 3 Cheers for Gramul, every time I see your sig now I will /salute you.

[Duelle]

However, when I asked for "changes to FINAL FANTASY XIV that would drastically alter the rules already set in Eorzea" in the poling, I expected actual change from the typical formula. Not the same basic setup we've seen a million times before.

If you're going to expect to be different solely for the sake not following a "basic setup", you're setting yourself up for disappointment. Speaking for myself, I expected something different from FFXI, and that's exactly what we got.

[Gramul]

If you're going to expect to be different solely for the sake not following a "basic setup", you're setting yourself up for disappointment. Speaking for myself, I expected something different from FFXI, and that's exactly what we got.

And by different from XI, you mean similar to WoW?
Like nearly other MMO for the past decade? The very same stagnation that poisons so many other genres in so many other industries? The very concept that defines the word "generic"? This "basic setup" is little more than companies charging head first after the biggest pot of gold.
Don't get me wrong. WoW has made a lot of breakthroughs, but they don't have to be the standard structure of the whole genre.

And no. The little novelties and changes you see in every WoW inspired game does not change the core structure.

[Duelle]

And by different from XI, you mean similar to WoW?

Being similar to WoW was more icing on the cake than anything else. All that meant is that I could make a transition from one to the other. This is not counting that I hated most of FFXI's gameplay (gear swaps, refresh-whoring, utsusemi, on/off switches in the form of gear, to name a few) while I did enjoy WoW's take on encounter design, mechanics and party dynamics.

Like nearly other MMO for the past decade? The very same stagnation that poisons so many other genres in so many other industries?

Taking ideas from your peers has been par for the course in entertainment since the coming of motion pictures, and is thus a poor talking point. Specially when it is ideas that work.

We could sit here and condemn the fighting game industry for implementing super meters, or RPGs of old for using turn-based combat, or even recent beat em ups that seem to be taking major pointers from Akham Assylum's free flow combo system (equivalents to what we've seen within the MMORPG genre), but to do so would be asinine and pointless. MMORPGs also fall into this line of reasoning.

[Gramul]

Taking ideas from your peers has been par for the course in entertainment since the coming of motion pictures, and is thus a poor talking point. Specially when it is ideas that work.

And it's the reason why we get 4 terrible rom-coms a year. It's why most action movies are either Michael Bay explosion fests, or Die Hard ripoffs. It's why every non-major animation studio makes films featuring talking animals. It's why family comedies feature some form of CG animal dancing for no real reason. It's why horror almost always features dumb shaky cam now.

We could sit here and condemn the fighting game industry for implementing super meters, or RPGs of old for using turn-based combat, or even recent beat em ups that seem to be taking major pointers from Akham Assylum's free flow combo system

I can and do.
Why do you think regular JRPGs are so rare these days? Why did Adventure games fade into obscurity for a decade, only to be brought back by essentially one company? Why do you not really see rhythm games anymore? What happened to film noir and Italian Westerns? The genres burnt out.

Hell, one of the newest JRPGs coming out is a novelty because it uses an old style system. Because that what happens when you overexpose something like that, any attempt to revive it can only be seen as a novelty. People get tired of seeing it again and again. It happens in every industry throughout all of creative history. You have to really mix it up before you drown in the stagnant swamp you've created.

[Ahzarhuuk]

And by different from XI, you mean similar to WoW?
Like nearly other MMO for the past decade? The very same stagnation that poisons so many other genres in so many other industries? The very concept that defines the word "generic"? This "basic setup" is little more than companies charging head first after the biggest pot of gold.
Don't get me wrong. WoW has made a lot of breakthroughs, but they don't have to be the standard structure of the whole genre.

And no. The little novelties and changes you see in every WoW inspired game does not change the core structure.

Things are similar to WoW because WoW is the most successful MMO that ever existed.



It's a game that has had incredible influence, and continues to do so. And at the same time it maintained it's success by taking elemetns from other MMOs.
This is how innovation works...you don't reinvent the wheel each time and you don't deviate from things that are proven to be very effective. Especially not for the sake of pandering.

[Gramul]

This is how innovation works...you don't reinvent the wheel each time and you don't deviate from things that are proven to be very effective. Especially not for the sake of pandering.

That's just it. Base mimicry isn't effective, and this game is pandering to the lowest common denominator.
People didn't stop playing those other WoW rips because the funding went dry. People stopped playing them because, at their core, they where the same game they've seen a thousand times before.

This isn't innovative. It's the "us too" concept amplified to 11. As of right now, there is simply not enough core difference to set it apart.

[Duelle]

That's just it. Base mimicry isn't effective, and this game is pandering to the lowest common denominator.
People didn't stop playing those other WoW rips because the funding went dry. People stopped playing them because, at their core, they where the same game they've seen a thousand times before.

False. Those games managed to screw up on several levels in development, implementation, design or (worst of all) made bad blood with its playerbase. In some cases they were extreme niches, which did nothing to help them meet whatever projections they had.

You're blaming the wrong thing. Stop it.

[ArcheustheWise]

False. Those games managed to screw up on several levels in development, implementation, design or (worst of all) made bad blood with its playerbase. In some cases they were extreme niches, which did nothing to help them meet whatever projections they had.

You're blaming the wrong thing. Stop it.

No, true. He's completely right, ive asked multiple people over several games when they "failed" why they thought it did and the majority of answers was "it was because they are just trying to be wow". Most others just had to stop mmos for awhile because they needed to get rl priorities in order. And a couple people here and there stated what you did, the implementation. But imo that's not whats the prob here...

Which goes to show you, why try and be wow when people can go play wow... Gramul is blaming the correct thing. ITs time for mmos to get off this stupid gear treadmill skinnerbox kick is been on for 10 years since wow... its REALLLY old. Its actually older than wow. The point is, technology has gotten quite a bit nicer since then, we can do better things. Companies just want to make an easy buck.