Quote Originally Posted by Dale View Post
EDITED**

Well... since I seem to be out of my daily posts... I will answer a few directed at me here then call it.

To Gideon and Magelback: You two were trying to justify the WoW-like design of Final Fantasy 14 by saying they did it because they did not want to compete with themselves for subscriptions. The problem with this theory is that it is and already has damaged Final Fantasy 11. It's not a red herring.... or a strawman. Though it was one you both were trying to make to defend the logic of making Final Fantasy 14 more like WoW.

It's basically like Lord Savior said. To think that they wouldn't compete with another, seeing as they are both Final Fantasy games is just absurd. They are, will, and have.
Ok, please then keep things fair and look at both sides of your argument. Since you are saying that its is way more of a WoW clone, Can you tell me how many subs WoW "hemorrhaged" when FFXIV was released?

To address your strawman, You feel that FFXIV is already stealing subs from FFXI and therefore you wish to totally kill off FFXI by making this game even more like is predecessor? I can tell you why I think so many subs went away from FFXI (also, please tell me exactly how you know ALL those subs went directly because of FFXIV?) Players that went to FFXIV from FFXI went in with an expectation based on a previous experience. They were hoping for a similar experience to what they were already playing. Three things contributed to this way of thinking, 1) Very Similar art style and character models 2) Its a final fantasy title 3) its an MMO

Now if you have experience with previous Final Fantasy titles you will know that, while they have some similarities, numbered installment have been different from the one before it in many ways. FFXIV keep with that tradition, correct? ok, so with the above three points in mind, I can see why MMO players (the vast majority of complainers about FFXIV's design, not as much from the FF players.) who played FFXI and transitioned to FFXIV were surprised and upset at the direction it took.

I'm not denying that many players of FFXI may have transitioned from FFXIV, what I am saying is that it would have been even more damaging to the existing player base of FFXI if FFXIV was more like FFXI. Nobody seems to want to count how many people left FFVII for FFXIII (or the irrelevance of that question) yet here we are talking about FFXI to FFXIV. And we are also not talking about how many people left Guild Wars 2 for FFXIV either. This is what i meant by special pleading.

As for the Strawman part it was in regards to "Defending making FFXIV more like WoW" and "they are already damaging FFXI" is the two are not necessarily connected in the way you are presenting them. Using the excuse that FFXIV is already stealing subs from FFXI therefore we should put more features of FFXI into FFXIV is a strawman when you fail to actually account for where all those subs went, then compare those sub steals for comparable nature from the other game that is specifically mentioned in the OP, WoW. so please, before you continue to wave that around research both sides, come up with a ratio even of transferred subs, then use that as a reason to make FFXIV more like FFXI.

Until then, why not find a better ground to get the features you would like in the game? There are many more, better articulated reasons for getting NM's put in FFXIV for example. There was a great thread devoted to it long ago. Also, be clear on what you would like from FFXI not just the ambiguous "make it more like FFXI" That can mean many things to many different people.

So, ya. make a better argument was all I was trying to say. Like I said, it would take a long time to try and explain myself and I probably wouldnt even get my point across clearly enough for you to understand what I meant by what I said.