Coil mode for main story

[Bufkus]

It is equivalent to working hard to get something for along time, then it becoming a simple joke that anyone can do without really trying.

Like getting a college degree and high school grad ends up with your same job at the same pay. Casuals need to simply step it up. Having limited play time is no excuse for being bad at the game.

If MMO companies listened to garbage like this, they would quickly lose the majority of their playerbase.

[Tupsi]

If MMO companies listened to garbage like this, they would quickly lose the majority of their playerbase.

Huh, so why is it SWTOR failed quickly and had to relaunch F2P? Why is it Tera failed quickly and had to relaunch F2P? Why is it ATB failed and had to relaunch? Why is it majority of new Korean MMOs failed and had to relaunch as a "Sequel"? Why is it Chinese MMOs continue to fail and relaunch as 'Sequels'? Why is it a lot of Asian MMO developers are scared to localize their MMO to the western markets?

Sorry, but what Xatsh said is far from what would axe a playerbase compared to..you know, lack of content, poor gameplay systems and overall boring MMO - That loses players much faster.

[Lukahn]

To all of you want an easy mode for coil, let me try to explain why people are fighting you so hard on the issue. I do not consider myself an "elitist" or hardcore in the least. Adding an easy mode and just allowing anyone to run coil right out of the gate pretty much takes all of the game, out of the game. To many of us, it would make it to where you are literally watching yourself play, rather than actually participating. And how would you get there?? Do you have to still kill Titan HM to unlock easy mode of coil, because that makes no sense, unless you add a Titan Hard Mode Easy Mode. It sounds extreme and dramatic, but adding easy modes to all the content would literally be the death of the entire game, and the entire experience. I know you may not see it that way, and that it's a matter of perspective, but just know that's how many people see it, myself included.

[Lukahn]

Us old timers come from a time when picking up a game was like a little project. You could work on it a while, learn about it and practice, and you'd get further. It was a game. I'm including lore heavy experiences as well. Even games in this very series. I LOVE becoming immersed in lore and gameworlds, but I also like to play the game, as well. Final Fantasy isn't a particularly demanding MMO either, and to many of us it seems like SE bends over backwards to make everything very attainable to everyone, casual players included. I believe they have accomplished this. I haven't completed Coil, and as of now I have that to work towards. If they added an easy mode I could just run coil in a day and have nothing to work towards. Then what? That would be removing a massive goal in a game where goals are needed to keep people playing.

[NeruMew]

This is the way LotRO and a few other games went. It allows for development flexibility leaving content stable. Can't get 8 people? Buff 4 to do an 8 man dungeon. Many of the lower level dungeons nobody ran in LotRO you could solo through signature buffing. They were hard as hell but you could do it. It's really all about how far you want to take it.

Here it would allow people to at least get a lay of the dungeon, learn the moves, learn the core attack moves before duty finder queue.

And get good gear handed to them, basically. You forgot that part

Those are not the hardcore players themselves, just the players that need to feel special, and can't get enough of it.

Or simply idiots who can't comprehend what they read and don't realise they will have more content, and T1-5 will be irrelevant challenge for them anyway.

It's not hardcore attitude, just selfish and close-minded.

The irony of your statement is players like you (assuming since you know, it's mostly players like you who attack "hardcore" players) want everything handed to them and doesn't even want to try to push through tough content and rather want content nerfed into the ground and able to breeze through it - Doesn't that make you more selfish and close minded? This is an era of very easy MMOs and might I remind you an era where MMOs tend to fail very quickly and end up with a lack of content through it's lifespan because of said ease of content? People enjoy the challenge of the coil because out of this entire game, it's one that actually utilizes your job to the max.

So it's not selfish that people enjoy that.

You're forgetting the part that when the content gets nerfed, that gear and rewards are irrelevant to the new content. And there are ways of making the original allagan set accomplished special too, it could have either a marking on the tooltip, or different coloring. It doesn't justify leaving casual players off the experience.

And just so you know, I enjoy doing top end game content. In fact, that's what I enjoy the most out of what game content would be. Doing hard modes and such. Even though I haven't done too much in ARR. I have experience in other games doing hardcore content, and here I am on T5 as of now.

I know it's nice having those shiny items that not many others have, but you need to also understand where they stand. And also understand that this isnt simply catering to lazy people, it is also giving the opportunity to all the other players that are not as skilled as you are, have the chance to complete and experience this content. And in some cases no matter how much experience they get they just can't get it right, for whatever different reason it may be.

Those are not the hardcore players themselves, just the players that need to feel special, and can't get enough of it.

Or simply idiots who can't comprehend what they read and don't realise they will have more content, and T1-5 will be irrelevant challenge for them anyway.

It's not hardcore attitude, just selfish and close-minded.

It is equivalent to working hard to get something for along time, then it becoming a simple joke that anyone can do without really trying.

Like getting a college degree and high school grad ends up with your same job at the same pay. Casuals need to simply step it up. Having limited play time is no excuse for being bad at the game.

And I agree with you... But one thing are university and highschool degrees, where they come as proof that you actually know something, they are applied in real-life on things that actually matter to the world and can have serious consecuences if not done right. You can't just compare a shiny piece of allagan gear with a university degree... Makes completely no sense.

And yes, difficulty in the educational field being dumbed down is just terrible. But that's another discussion.

I know there is going to be more content coming out. And it isn't nice to belittle people who have reading comprehension problems.

It isn't nice for people who have reading comprehension problems to come in and bash others with shit that was never said nor implied?
Some people post stuff that's just off.

And just to clarify, it wasn't exacly directed to people with reading comprehension, but rather the ones that don't bother paying attention to what they read, or straight out not reading it at all.

[HakuroDK]

I would like an easy variant of Coil, at least with reduced level gear (or no gear at all), just so I can go through the plot.

I've read some select spoilers online, but honestly, no one in my FC Alliance (admittedly an alliance made up of RP FCs, but still) has the strength, skill, or interest to even think of attempting Coil. It's unfortunate, but that's the choice I've made.

However, even with that, I have run Coil T1 with some more endgame-oriented FCs looking for people, and we just kept wiping.

I mean obviously, stuff like Crystal Tower and Pharos Sirus should ease the difficulty substantially by granting easier access to higher level gear beyond Darklight/Darksteel, but some of us just want to experience the story just once over.

It's not like this request would destroy traditional Coil. It'd just add an easier version with reduced-quality or removed rewards that would allow people who actually care about the story of Coil to experience it.

[Ksenia]

And get good gear handed to them, basically. You forgot that part

I don't remember having good gear handed to me in LotRO. The best gear was crafted guild recipes that were on 5 day timers. The dungeon version was on dailies open world events similar to FATE content here. I don't remember what they called it but I can still see it in chat. "So and so is up" Everyone would run and do it. You needed it about the same as WP here for tokens.

Difference was, people didn't need to queue for leveling content. Kinda like here.

[Bufkus]

snip

Classic strawman argument, non-bro. You bring up a completely irrelevant comparison (other failed MMOs) as an attempt to prove that my position is wrong.

What Xatsh is saying is that he thinks casual players should just get better and that somehow will remedy their inability to get through Coil and future harder content. That is literally the dumbest thing I've heard in the longest of time. The majority of the playerbase will always be "casual" in reaching endgame, and there will always only be a small percentage of the playerbase who has successfully gotten through some or all of the endgame raid(s). So obviously it makes sense that when they introduce harder raids, they will make the previous endgame ones easier so that more players can reach these harder raids. Every MMO does this, and that's been reiterated repeatedly in this thread.

I'd like to think Square Enix knows how to design MMOs far better than you and Xatsh ever could.

[NeruMew]

Us old timers come from a time when picking up a game was like a little project. You could work on it a while, learn about it and practice, and you'd get further. It was a game. I'm including lore heavy experiences as well. Even games in this very series. I LOVE becoming immersed in lore and gameworlds, but I also like to play the game, as well. Final Fantasy isn't a particularly demanding MMO either, and to many of us it seems like SE bends over backwards to make everything very attainable to everyone, casual players included. I believe they have accomplished this. I haven't completed Coil, and as of now I have that to work towards. If they added an easy mode I could just run coil in a day and have nothing to work towards. Then what? That would be removing a massive goal in a game where goals are needed to keep people playing.

You'll have from turn 6 to 9 I believe to complete "hardcore" (read as challenging) content.

This is an MMORPG, and sadly, these games evolve over time, and they need a decent pace. If you cannot keep up with it and are always falling behind on content then it is something up to you.

If they were to leave the gearing process as it is and just add content without any catch-up gear system, then well... Everyone who is new or far behind, will be behind forever (exaggerating, but a very long time, a decent long time on the best cases where they can just force themselves into doing hard content with the minimum gear required, because they have the skill and capabilities).

You'll find there are single player games that might fit your playstyle better too, or somewhere where you can advance at your own pace. At this rate, if it continues as it looked like from your post, unless they nerf it you'll be behind for a long time, unless they take forever to release content, but we have already seen enough forum threads about not enough end game content haven't we? Hardcore players will always finish the new end-game content first, and fast. =/ It's unavodable because that is their goal, unless you ofc add silly holdbacks.

[Tupsi]

Classic strawman argument

So in other words, your "fact" was indeed wrong? Understood.

I'd like to think Square Enix knows how to design MMOs far better than you and Xatsh ever could.

But your whole argument boiled down to: Difficult Content = Kills off playerbases.

Every MMO does this

And many of the MMOs have failed, even when they do this - so 'strawman' wasn't there. I'm just saying, MMOs fail regardless of what Xatsh said happening or not, if anything you shrugging that fact off kind of means you don't want to see that Xatsh wasn't actually incorrect - If an MMO is destined to fail and lose players it will on its own accord.