FFXIV has lost it's magic

[Battlewrench]

Let's not make this about "casuals" and "hardcore". Those terms are pointless, the game can be great and not be about the grind. Just because something takes longer doesn't make it hardcore and just because something can be done in an hour or two doesn't make it casual. The fact is people want a quality game and not another copy of a certain MMO. They, me included, don't want a hub world where you only spam dungeons to get gear and repeat the process once new content gets released. We want more depth and a quality game.

[KizuBriko]

...They, me included, don't want a hub world where you only spam dungeons to get gear and repeat the process once new content gets released...

"Hub World" has got to be the best term I've heard to describe this instanced everything game.

[Berezo]

It's all about the content design. The content in this game was designed to be consumed quickly. The worst part about it is, they restrict you each week by having lockout timers, and currency caps on what little you have to do in the game. SE designed a game that requires very little effort to make progress and then shoots itself in the foot by only letting you do that content once a week. It's actually telling you not to play the game. Stupid, beyond stupid.

[Reslin]

Let's not make this about "casuals" and "hardcore". Those terms are pointless, the game can be great and not be about the grind. Just because something takes longer doesn't make it hardcore and just because something can be done in an hour or two doesn't make it casual. The fact is people want a quality game and not another copy of a certain MMO. They, me included, don't want a hub world where you only spam dungeons to get gear and repeat the process once new content gets released. We want more depth and a quality game.

Well in 2.2 we're supposed to get golden saucer. Mini games, possibly chocobo racing, hints at a card game, and much more. More stuff to do than just dungeon runs. Seems the devs agree to do more than just that.

[Nialle]

One of the great things about old MMOS like EQ and XI was that when you went into a zone, it felt like an adventure.

I know FFXI is apparently 'ruined' (never played it; however thats what lots of people keep saying) but last I checked EQ is still running and even got another expansion recently. I never understood people who go on about how great it was while never wanting to actually touch it again.

[Doo]

I never understood people who go on about how great it was while never wanting to actually touch it again.

What's there not to understand, games get old.

[Reslin]

I know FFXI is apparently 'ruined' (never played it; however thats what lots of people keep saying) but last I checked EQ is still running and even got another expansion recently. I never understood people who go on about how great it was while never wanting to actually touch it again.

Used to play EQ and I left after POK so did many people I know. Why? EQ focused a lot on adventure. Want to take a ship to somewhere else? It wasn't instant. You actually rode on a boat. Riding on a boat and chatting with other players was unique. Also npcs that aren't of your race could be hostile to you. As an "evil aligned" character you had to come up with interesting ways to get onto hostile boats such as using invisibility, stealth, or other means. You could buy from "good aligned" merchants by hiding your identity. There were no maps originally. You had to learn the environment to know where to go. Mobs didn't stop chasing you when you went too far. Want fast travel? Wizards and druids could provide teleports but most players charged for their services. There was economy for these services. Make said wizard angry and they could even trick you into teleporting to a very hostile/dangerous zone if you weren't careful. Death meant having to find your corpse. Didn't find it in time? It decayed causing you to lose what was on it. Traveling was dangerous but exciting. Not to mention you had to buy spells if you used spells. Some spells were only sold in certain towns. So you had to travel to these cities to purchase them. Some in hostile cities so you had to find other means to get them either working with another player who isn't hostile to purchase said spell for you or find another way to obtain them. In POK? You can buy everything.

When POK came out all of this changed. They added maps so you could see where everything was at and put pok books in every zone. No longer did you need to seek out other players in order to teleport somewhere. No longer did you have to worry about the dangers of death as you could just simply walk to the book and teleport out. No longer did you need boat rides. The sense of adventure was destroyed. That being said, I also wouldn't go back to vanilla EQ either just providing insight why some people like EQ but don't go back. There's a big clamoring with players asking for an EQ classic server. Just like there's FF11 players who want pre abyssea.

[Meimei]

So getting to 50 in less than 2 days is a challenge?

No, but neither is shouting for 2-3 hours to fill a group that disbands after a few chains out in Yhoator. You also died and lost all the exp you made, making it a completely wasted experience that accomplished absolutely nothing.

Nothing in FFXI was true "challenge." Just very primitive and poorly made time sinks.

Challenge is good, I also welcome it, but not working for something = no challenge.

I'm doing plenty of work myself, but I can't say why due to the retarded post limit.

The general understanding of MMOs has evolved. Extremely difficult content that only 1% of the population can clear due to lack of accessibility or other kinds of problems is pretty meaningless.

An MMO is about an interactive and cooperative/competitive community that bands together. Who cares if not everything in the game makes you rip your hair out.

[Doo]

No, but neither is shouting for 2-3 hours to fill a group that disbands after a few chains out in Yhoator. You also died and lost all the exp you made, making it a completely wasted experience that accomplished absolutely nothing.

Nothing in FFXI was true "challenge." Just very primitive and poorly made time sinks.

Apparently forming a good group is pretty challenging.

[Seif]

Let's not make this about "casuals" and "hardcore".

good point.
I'm one of those who really don't mind the grind in XIV... it just doesn't get any harder or complex at any point for me. I'm now stuck in 30s in few classes and the leves feel pretty much the exact same as they did 20 levels ago.

I love the crafting but overall I think there's plenty of room in this game to add more variety. The grind seems very focused on only leves or fates and as a format they feel limiting from a game design standpoint.
I'd love to see more meaningful interaction with the NPCs like quest NPCs taking part in battles and stories that require you to pay more attention to what's happening.

What's missing from the game is more long-term quests. Things that cannot be just breezed through in one sitting.
It's early days but I hope future content brings more variety and not just more of the same.