FFXIV has lost it's magic

[Blarp]

I know FFXI is apparently 'ruined' (never played it; however thats what lots of people keep saying) but last I checked EQ is still running and even got another expansion recently. I never understood people who go on about how great it was while never wanting to actually touch it again.

You can only play a game for so long before you walk away from it. I played FFXI for the better part of a decade. I've seen all the adventures it has to offer. The point is that at one time it was a game of massive depth and adventure. I'm sure my nostalgia is showing, but FFXI had a special "something" that this game is severely lacking. I felt the same way about WoW for many years as well. MMO's today strip away as much inconvenience as they possibly can, but in doing so they strip away a crucial element of MMO's IMO. I want to get pissed off about losing a level. I want to go into a zone with no map or quest markers, take a wrong turn and end up getting mauled to death by a creature who's level wasn't displayed. I want to be "inconvenienced" by having to actually travel somewhere instead of magically teleporting to very convenient locations around the world. I want dungeons to be actual dungeons instead of linear corridors with bosses at the end. I want it to take longer than a month of casual play to hit level cap.

I'm 100% sure that I have rose tinted glasses, but maybe... just maybe, if a developer was okay with a niche game for a niche crowd, and didn't make yet another MMO that has to hit all the checkmarks i.e. instances, dungeon finder, fast travel, marked quests, everything already mapped, raids, etc. then I might subscribe to an MMO for longer than a month.

[zdub303]

You can only play a game for so long before you walk away from it. I played FFXI for the better part of a decade. I've seen all the adventures it has to offer. The point is that at one time it was a game of massive depth and adventure. I'm sure my nostalgia is showing, but FFXI had a special "something" that this game is severely lacking. I felt the same way about WoW for many years as well. MMO's today strip away as much inconvenience as they possibly can, but in doing so they strip away a crucial element of MMO's IMO. I want to get pissed off about losing a level. I want to go into a zone with no map or quest markers, take a wrong turn and end up getting mauled to death by a creature who's level wasn't displayed. I want to be "inconvenienced" by having to actually travel somewhere instead of magically teleporting to very convenient locations around the world. I want dungeons to be actual dungeons instead of linear corridors with bosses at the end. I want it to take longer than a month of casual play to hit level cap.

I'm 100% sure that I have rose tinted glasses, but maybe... just maybe, if a developer was okay with a niche game for a niche crowd, and didn't make yet another MMO that has to hit all the checkmarks i.e. instances, dungeon finder, fast travel, marked quests, everything already mapped, raids, etc. then I might subscribe to an MMO for longer than a month.

You just remember what real MMOs were like. Not these 'mostly singeplayer online RPGs' that developers are putting out and watching fail one after another. For some reason WoW did it and was successful, and I don't think we'll ever know why. However, the model is clearly terrible and watching so many games rise and fall anyone can clearly see that people are looking for a real and challenging experience, and developers are failing to deliver time and time again.

I think someday someone will finally risk it and develop that niche game that old school MMO players really want. It may not have millions of subs, it may not be the prettiest game ever, but like EvE, I think it has a niche that enough people would be happy to pay for.

[Nialle]

I really think that people who have been playing MMOs for a decade+ might need to consider the possibility that they're just burned out on the genre at this point. You never get that 'first love' feeling back. Neither can a 6 month old game hold a candle to one that has years worth of expansion content, no matter if it's FFXIV or anything else.

However, I totally agree that we need more niche MMOs out there. But everyone wants to copy WoW and have millions of players and they don't want to build games to a smaller scale. I think the biggest plague on gaming in general is the obsession with AAA budget games (both with players and studios) and how they're strangling creativity because they NEED to make millions to even break even on their huge costs to build. In such cases it's always a case of the broad market over the niche.

[Blarp]

I really think that people who have been playing MMOs for a decade+ might need to consider the possibility that they're just burned out on the genre at this point. You never get that 'first love' feeling back. Neither can a 6 month old game hold a candle to one that has years worth of expansion content, no matter if it's FFXIV or anything else.

That's just not true. I've been playing MMO's for a long time, but there have been several that captured me. FFXI, WoW, EVE, and to a lesser degree, GW1 and TSW. It's games like FFXIV that are nothing more than "yet another MMO" that I'm burned out on. I really can't complain much though as I knew what I was getting into with this game, but I guess I was foolishly hoping that this game would turn out to be a bit different.

[Amberion]

I really think that people who have been playing MMOs for a decade+ might need to consider the possibility that they're just burned out on the genre at this point.

I don't really agree with that. While it may not be as high up on the "emotional" scale as the first MMORPG gave them, it should at least give people some "tingly" feelings. I just don't think a generalized game like this can give the same impact a niche game does.

Take FFXI for example, people either loved it or hated it. It wasn't that much of a middle ground there.

[Nialle]

While it may not be as high up on the "emotional" scale as the first MMORPG gave them, it should at least give people some "tingly" feelings.

Happy players don't post long introspective threads on forums -- only 10% or so of a game's playerbase ever even uses them (that is a percent I've heard repeated by many MMO devs in GDC talks and such). Personally, I'm still enjoying the game and don't usually even come here unless there's a maintenance. Certain topics here can become echo chambers of agreement (complete with hand-waving away of dissent as being 'white knighting' or 'trolling') but that doesn't mean it's representative of even a significant percentage of people playing.

I've played many MMOs (including niche/sandboxy ones like Saga of Ryzom, Horizons, and Mabinogi) and I'm still having fun in FFXIV after playing since Beta 2. I can only speak for myself, however and don't assume to speak for any majority. It'll take another 6-12 months before we get a better idea of just how many people agree with one side or the other, on this issue.

[Sixmp]

It is true imo that MMO's these days are closer to Facebook games. I understand many people have limited time. What i don't understand though how that effects their ability to play a game with a levelling experience that lasts 2 months to reach max level. It just takes you longer. There isn't a race to win is there?

I am not a fan of time sinks. I am a fan of genuine difficulty though. FFXIV needs more genuine difficulty. IT also needs more "fun" things to do, like pet battles or a system where you get hints to travel somewhere in the game and when you get there you get a riddle and that takes you somewhere else etc etc until eventually you get a fun prize. Things that take time and are fun.

[Azurymber]

What I would really like to see is creating some new creative content rather than -just- copying the ffxi content. Maybe large interactive zones. Or zones that change at random (e.g. whenever a world-nm like behemoth spawns in a zone, it creates a small earthquake altering pathways or hills)

FFXIV could potentially add it many interesting things to make the world more dynamic and important.

[Axidrain]

i understand why se went this route. nobody wants to play a game where they're stuck at a certain point. and bicker about it all you want, but without the casuals you wont have a game to play. they overshadow these so called "hardcore" players by a huge margin. it's a delicate balance, and i think leveling shouldnt be a grind anyway. the most important stuff are in instances which the game kinda forces you into very early on. It introduces a lot of mechanics to "casuals" that have probably never experienced this kind of gameplay before.

So all in all, I think at this point its pretty much an introduction to how an MMO should be played. Introducing and familiarizing people with game mechanics, social interaction, etc. People are actually partying up rather than going solo all the time, which to me is a good thing. heck everyone is pretty much on TS/vent/mumble/etc for end game content, even the casuals. Its pretty amazing actually.

[Sublimeprince]

true fact it takes a lot of energy for the human brain to process info so we are looking at a large migration towards stimulus vs. lazy brains that need simplicity as satisfaction