Bard Nerfs Offically Confirmed

[Woodberry]

Hello!

On a standstill fight, lasting 10 minutes, if you have a dragoon to provide piercing, BRDs are simming at 4% higher than DRG, in pure potency, with the WD penalty probably dropping them down to maybe 2-5% lower.
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I guess I should check into your sims since you are giving information that isn't agreeing with parses in coil or on the dummy. I'd admit it could be me needing to learn to play better, but this is consistent across all bards I've parsed.

Can you share your sims?

There could be a number of issues to explain the difference. One being the parses are wrong. I do agree they are off to a certain degree for bards. Or two, gear scaling. Bards don't scale as well as other classes.

Edit: I found your sim thread. It appears from the first few paragraphs it is not used to determine dps comparisons. Looking at the original numbers, you appeared to simply use potency and not take into effect gear scaling. Have you updated this and come to a more accurate conclusion?

If you can clarify, I'll look into it deeper. I'd like an accurate representation of dps since you have made the claim. My parse data could very well be wrong.

[pandabearcat]

One of the biggest things I notice while playing ingame vs in the sim is that it is REALLY difficult because of lag to take advantage of every HS.

I'm sure yall have noticed that HS's stupid animation takes up almost 2 seconds, and the proc happens at the end of the animation, giving you barely 0.5 seconds, less for lag and SS to go into SS correctly.

You're right it compares potencies, but since potencies scale linearly with "stats" and since I finally got all 3 classes into the sim the next project is simulating players themselves and putting stats into the potency comparisons.

One of the reasons that bards may look better on paper is also the lack of song singing, and also the fact that at a 10 minute nonstop fight profile, which it is currently running, all 3 classes run out of TP. Thus, capped on TP usage, generally speaking monks get screwed more as its harder to keep up GL, and bards and dragoons fight over which one is more efficient with their usage.

The other thing is while I coded in priorities for bard at low TP (aka, at sub 110 TP, you never want to use HS as you need the tp for a full SS > WB > VB to keep up buffs/dots), I didn't for the other two yet since I don't know the classes well. It may be that they perform much better.

I could do more simulations with infinite TP, and I might just do that at some point to see max theoretical dps.

[Woodberry]

I run 5 min parses and haven't had an issue with TP unless I'm on debuff duty. I use invigorate when I am 450ish down.

Gear scaling is a large issue. It is one of the ways SE is controlling bard dps. For instance our relic weapons cap at 41 damage compared to the 46 damage of the other classes.

[pandabearcat]

For instance our relic weapons cap at 41 damage compared to the 46 damage of the other classes.

Yea I am aware of that, iirc all bard weapons should be 10% lower than same ilvl melee weapons.

Afaik though the offstats should be identical, as well as the damage formulas.

It certainly is a hit to damage, but it is not a 10% hit certainly, as other factors (most notably DET) are independent of weapon damage and should be roughly equivalent across classes.

If someone can give me a stat listing of all the DoW classes in DL gear (lets use that as base, then go into AF2/allagan BiS gear), I could start working on proper dps as opposed to potency checks.

[Woodberry]

Too much work, I can tell you the bard stats is all.

[Ryan420]

Seems pretty obvious to me what they are planning on doing. Sounds like a Raging Strikes nerf to me.

When I read that days ago that was exactly what I thought too a Raging Strikes nerf. Hoping that is all they nerf cause that wouldn't be as bad as other types of nerfs. Regardless WAR is getting rebuffed and that is the class I am looking forward to in this next patch.

[Leon_Stormrage]

I don't understand why they are buffing all melee dps damage and nerfing bard.
Also other time SE say nothing about what changes they have planned for bard...

[Woodberry]

I don't understand why they are buffing all melee dps damage and nerfing bard.
Also other time SE say nothing about what changes they have planned for bard...

They mentioned cross class stuff and then mentioned bards have too much burst. If I had to guess they are either taking away internal release of blood for blood.

[Leraje]

Hello!

On a standstill fight, lasting 10 minutes, if you have a dragoon to provide piercing, BRDs are simming at 4% higher than DRG, in pure potency, with the WD penalty probably dropping them down to maybe 2-5% lower.

Reducing Piercing-resistance does not count for BRD damage, because it is Projectile-type damage ... so don't know where you get your increased damage

[pandabearcat]

Reducing Piercing-resistance does not count for BRD damage, because it is Projectile-type damage ... so don't know where you get your increased damage

Everyone keeps saying how DRGs buff BRD damage.

I don't know if its true.

If it isn't true, I'll change the sim to indicate that =D

Without the buff, bards are consistently 5-8% lower than 100% melee uptime potency.

Add in their 10% WD penalty and they shouuld be down between 8-15% from optimal melee dps.

That is a bit low I would say.