Bard Nerfs Offically Confirmed

[Zilara]

Bard already does less damage and has the same or more responsibility to participate in game mechanics than other DD's at endgame.

I don't really know how to tell you this, but....as a bard that's experienced every bit of content? We don't do less damage. In fact, it's quite the opposite. We're ahead of nearly everyone by a clear margin, largely due to the movement factoring into the damage of everyone else but melee. A good monk does more damage, and a good summoner can beat you if you're expressly running Foe Requiem a hell of a lot of the time to help them out, but Bard is insanely easy to play compared to both of those. If anything, we need some balancing in a big way.

[Bardo]

I don't really know how to tell you this, but.... We don't do less damage. In fact, it's quite the opposite. We're ahead of nearly everyone by a clear margin, largely due to the movement factoring into the damage of everyone else but melee.

Care to explain why parse after parse and simulation after simulation put bard about 10% behind before songs even come into play?
Happen to have a Turn4 parse that shows you above even a brain-dead BLM? (it's not going to happen)

Where's all this movement you're talking about?
I barely have to move at all on Caudecus. The only thing we have to avoid on ADS is laser. There's not a lot of movement involved for ranged DD in Turn4 either.

[Zilara]

Twintania. Obviously, Turn 4 is no contest, although if you isolate the damage on Dreadnoughts in a parse, you'll find the numbers look a lot more even. It's literally impossible to match Flare > Convert > Flare > Ether > Flare on the AOE packs in turn 4.

In Caduceus, we actually have an advantage over anyone but a SMN because running dots on both snakes allows us to effectively double the rate of Bloodletter procs. On ADS, your parse is going to be skewed depending on which route you take, because one results in reduced incoming magic damage, and the other causes reduced piercing and blunt damage.

Essentially, Turn 1 and Turn 5 are the closest to a level playing field you'll find in the Binding Coil without isolating damage numbers on specific mobs. If you'd like, I can go hit up our healer from last night and link the parse information from last night's Turn 5 kill, but it would have to wait until he's online.

[MargaretThatcher]

I think the reason people take issue with the bard nerfs is because despite not having to deal with any damage reduction, as a result of mechanics, bards are still performing beneath many of the other dps roles. Obviously there are going to be fights where bards shine (see: Titan) because of constant movement. However, within Coils you'll be hard pressed to find a situation where that level and frequency of movement is required. The bard "hype" at the launch of the game was just an exaggerated knee-jerk reaction that everyone had after seeing how strong bards were in the Titan/Garuda fights, and how well they were performing with low gear levels across the board.

[Zilara]

As I stated a moment ago, most Twintania kills have been double Bard for more reasons than just Song coverage. A decent bard who's following his cooldown rotation properly will easily outstrip a BLM or SMN, completely obliterate a DRG, and run just behind a MNK, given similar gear for all of them, even if everyone's standing completely still. The only time their damage dips is during Ballad/Paeon, and even then they can beat a DRG with that running.

[Bardo]

As I stated a moment ago, most Twintania kills have been double Bard for more reasons than just Song coverage.

I just searched for Twintania Kill Video on youtube and got several results that only run one Bard:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xL9TWeYSplI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvqQs_We2s0

If bard were actually doing more dps AND providing songs, why would everyone not triple bard with a token melee for LB?

All I'm saying is:
I think we both agree that a few fights provide mechanics that are advantageous to Bard (or adversely detrimental to other DD's).
I don't think using those few fights as evidence that Bard needs nerfs is justifiable unless you also look at the fights that are advantageous to other DD's and use those as evidence that those classes need nerfs as well.
Especially after they've already said they're going to tone down the mechanics that are adversely detrimental to Melee DD's.

[Zilara]

That's the main reason I added the qualifier 'most' :P
In reality though, while many Twintania kills have been done with similar group setups, the entirety of coil is doable with almost any party setup. While you could class stack heavily for Twintania, and as a direct result obliterate every conflag and dreadknight with little to no effort, most groups maintain the same group composition they've killed the previous turns with simply due to gear progression and player skill in a given class. I've even seen Twintania kills with a dragoon o_o

What it boils down to is that I know the numbers I've seen are considerably higher than they should be given what the idea behind the class is. The disparity between some of our parses sometimes reaches WoW levels of silliness, like one particular parse where over 65% of my damage was critical over 77 minutes, and I beat our BLM by about 40%.
Most of our parses are a little more evenly balanced, but there are factors in Bard mechanics that can lead to overwhelming amounts of damage, in particular the scaling on crit rating and the synergy between Barrage and our other cooldowns. These two can generally lead to us topping damage on any straightforward encounter, and I do have the information in reserve to back it up.

...At least, once the blood in my body that I've replaced with caffeine starts to recirculate and I get this research paper turned in.

[Leon_Stormrage]

There are people thinking that Bards are top dps ?
A handicapped dragoon can perfectly parse 250 dps on Caduceus and ADS. How many parse you as Bard?

[Zilara]

Super-late response, was still at class. I just wanted to clarify that we've been using LogRep for the past several weeks, so far it's proven to be much more detailed and accurate than FFXIVAPP has been, especially where DoTs are concerned. We originally switched parsers due to concerns about the viability of summoners, and it was much clearer about how Summoner damage works out.

The primary differences between LogRep and FFAPP are the DPS tracking methods. LogRep calculates DPS based on active time, that is, time spent attacking within a certain margin, so time spent trapped in a conflag or dodging divebombs isn't counted. Total damage still takes a hit, but it's a more accurate indicator of performance since it removes a lot of the luck from the typical parse. As an example, our summoner was stunned by four Dreadknights in our kill. I'll track down our parse-guy later and give you some numbers to work with.

Long story short, you should totally switch to LogRep.
Linky - http://bluegarter.guildwork.com/foru...6e4d5f3279cefa