The Monk Temple

[EasymodeX]

The tests were complete in beta 3 and many of the formulas were verified in beta 4.

General observations in retail have generally concurred with the formulas, with the exception of some caster damage formula testing (although I didn't pay much attention so I don't know the details). No one to my knowledge has done extensive testing in retail though.

[Naalya-Deix]

You forget also something (I know you know it, just to clarify) : SS doesn't affect AA, Crit & Det are. In many MMOs, Melee damage is a lot of total damages, don't ignore the det / crit bonuses on them (and should be obvious, while gaining only 0.10 sec with 100 SS) to focus Det / Crit (well there is this hidden DR with crit, but you can't do a det build without crit ... so . Also, Det sinergies very well with Crit). That is two aspects that SS does not offer (at least with the formulas right now ... Obviously if 100 SS would bring us to 1.5 GCD there is no question ... but this isn't the case and the difference is marginal. Plus, you should know that playing with "haste or SS" is directly affected by the 0.5 sec human eyes are stuck with to "realize" things. Crit & Det are "automatic".

[EasymodeX]

There is no such thing as "reaction delay" as pertains to the player execution of GCDs in this MMO.

[Powercow]

Your "work" is asinine because you don't understand how to assess the value of marginal stat gains. Your entire "work" section doesn't even answer the question and uses an incorrect stat comparison and baseline since you have a half-assed understanding of what you're talking about. A little bit of knowledge is more dangerous and more prone to error than pure ignorance.

You think 20% crit devalues crit by 20%. I could just stop here and let anyone who has a basic understanding of mathematics facepalm at your inability to comprehend statistics, but I'll go one step beyond. This is now how it works. I showed, thanks to basic math (and yeah, it's that simple!) that going from no crit rating to a heavy emphasis on crit rating only devalues it by 6%.

And my stat comparison and baseline is based off the actual gear available in the game. Yours is some nebulous idea that doesn't apply in nearly enough of a capacity to matter.

I don't have a theory. I have cyclical model that simulates a hard rotation and models damage modifiers and statistical crit rates. The results are as they are.

You keep saying this, but you've never shown anything. You just keep making stuff up and trying to pass it off like it's true. Anybody can punch numbers into a spreadsheet and come up with any conclusion they want; the important part is if you put the numbers in correctly, which you clearly did not since you're getting wholly incorrect answers.

[EasymodeX]

You think 20% crit devalues crit by 20%.

If you want to be precise, then that is not what I think.

but I'll go one step beyond. This is now how it works. I showed, thanks to basic math (and yeah, it's that simple!) that going from no crit rating to a heavy emphasis on crit rating only devalues it by 6%.

Congratulations on, again, not answering the correct question / solving the correct problem.

Mathcraft fails when you use it for the wrong purpose.

You keep saying this, but you've never shown anything. You just keep making stuff up and trying to pass it off like it's true.

I've uploaded and linked my model 3 separate times. IDGAF if you believe me or not.

Anybody can punch numbers into a spreadsheet and come up with any conclusion they want;

I do it better than most. Actually I'm most pleased with the part where I used a quasi-recursive set of formulas to loop buff timing to close rotations so you don't have to do that manually. Combined with the automatic DOT clipping corrections.

the important part is if you put the numbers in correctly, which you clearly did not since you're getting wholly incorrect answers.

Based on your napkin analysis that isn't even coherent for stat/gear evaluation? Kbro.

[Powercow]

If you want to be precise, then that is not what I think.

Monks have a general crit rate of >20% due to IR. So yeah, cut that CRT value by 20%.

Then this is a very bizarre statement.

Congratulations on, again, not answering the correct question / solving the correct problem.

And what's the correct question? I answered two:
1: How much of your damage is boosted by skillspeed?
---Around 50%, depending on your gear.
2: How strong is crit rating compared to skillspeed?
---Close to 50% stronger, though varying on specific situations.

I've uploaded and linked my model 3 separate times. IDGAF if you believe me or not.

I actually looked through all of your posts, and one was for a Bard spreadsheet, and the other link was defunct. Could you link it again? I'm actually curious.

Based on your napkin analysis that isn't even coherent for stat/gear evaluation? Kbro.

You can't understand it? Which part is too hard to understand? This forum isn't the best for formatting columns.

[EasymodeX]

Then this is a very bizarre statement.

"that CRT value". What do you think that refers to?

It does not refer to the crit that you described.

2: How strong is crit rating compared to skillspeed?
---Close to 50% stronger, though varying on specific situations.

Heh, no. That's not even the question you need to ask to compare against your first.

I actually looked through all of your posts, and one was for a Bard spreadsheet, and the other link was defunct. Could you link it again? I'm actually curious.

I never uploaded or linked a "Bard spreadsheet". If that is the post I'm thinking of, that is a link to the full workbook of which 1 tab is a sheet for the Bard rotation with a subsection on stat weights. There's another tab for DRGs and another for MNKs, along with some detailed DRG gear analysis.

You can't understand it? Which part is too hard to understand? This forum isn't the best for formatting columns.

Oh I understand it -- however it is not coherent, as I said, for stat weighting / gear evaluation / optimization. You seem to have a hard time with critical reading.

[Powercow]

I never uploaded or linked a "Bard spreadsheet". If that is the post I'm thinking of, that is a link to the full workbook of which 1 tab is a sheet for the Bard rotation with a subsection on stat weights. There's another tab for DRGs and another for MNKs, along with some detailed DRG gear analysis.

Well now I just feel silly for not noticing the tabs earlier. >>

So what's the point of AF10 (what % of damage is from DoTs) if it never comes into play again?
Where do you get 144.9 potency per second for skills? I wanna spam skills that do 320+ potency. And yeah, I know you're including Crits, but really even with the 10% crit you use in your example, or are you including Autoattack and DoT ticks for the skills that benefit from SS? Real rotational potency is closer to 95.55 for non-DoT skills.
Also why a 43.73 second rotation? That seems extremely arbitrary. Fixing up some of the numbers to go from base values (like if you had no gear at all) to adding 10 to each thing, Crit beats SS by 23%, and that's not even bothering to factor in DoTs or OGCDs.

So fix your damn spreadsheet and put in the correct values for things before you go off spouting about how great it is. Like I said, it doesn't matter if you use a spreadsheet if you don't put in the correct values, and you seem to be under the impression DoTs benefit from Skillspeed. Really, try putting in some appropriate values and you'll see some interesting returns!

And yeah, my thing isn't going to help someone decide "is 10 skillspeed or 10 crit better?" outside of the obvious "well crit is about 50% stronger than skillspeed, so you should go with that." No, it's not going to give them an exact number, but it tells them what they should be going for.

Anyway I'm done with this guy. He doesn't even get the basic concepts of the class or mechanics he keeps trying to tout.

[Almalexia]

You shouldn't waste those precious PB seconds like that. I'd start with BfB -> DK -> TS -> SP -> IR -> PB -> SPx4

In another thread, I considered the optimal use of PB at battle start.

You'll notice chaining Snaps is less effective than bolstering them first with DK and Twin. Using DK under the effect of PB will apply the DK debuff, while using it from a neutral form will not. If you could fit only 4 steps into PB, opening with DK is still ideal.

Basically, you'll do more damage, more quickly if you use PB to ramp up to GL3 instead of putting it off for Snap spam. It's a different story if you're in the middle of an encounter and want to use PB "just for the damage."

Also, I think it's a bad idea to burn BfB/IR before you're ready to apply DoTs.

[Allyrion]

In another thread, I considered the optimal use of PB at battle start.

You'll notice chaining Snaps is less effective than bolstering them first with DK and Twin. Using DK under the effect of PB will apply the DK debuff, while using it from a neutral form will not. If you could fit only 4 steps into PB, opening with DK is still ideal.

Basically, you'll do more damage, more quickly if you use PB to ramp up to GL3 instead of putting it off for Snap spam. It's a different story if you're in the middle of an encounter and want to use PB "just for the damage."

Also, I think it's a bad idea to burn BfB/IR before you're ready to apply DoTs.

I really like Twin-Snapx3-DK for a starter(as from your post). I don't use it much as a starter but I think that's the best one.