The Monk Temple

[EasymodeX]

I'm not the best at modelling stats, so I might just be misunderstanding something.

Everything I know about probability stats says it doesn't work that way. You may have a baseline of 20% crit, but if you get up to 40% crit you increased your damage by a set amount.

You're focusing too much on stats and damage; the question at hand is the value of the stats as they contribute to damage.

If you have 10,000,000 strength and 0% chance to crit, how much value do you get from +1 str? Nearly nothing. How much value do you get from +1 crit? A heck of a lot.

If you have 10 strength and 90% chance to crit, how much value do you get from +1 str? A lot. +1 crit? Very little.

Optimizing stats on gear is about relative increase to your damage. If your class had 50 autocritting abilities and a baseline 80% chance to crit because SquareEnix says so, then how much value do you get from crit? Wouldn't you want to buff your base damage instead to take advantage of that crit?

Another way to look at it is that you get linear gains from +crit or +ss. Wouldn't you rather get superior geometric gains by multiplying your crit or ss?

The largest area coverage from 2 linear values is always a square, not a rectangle.

Yes, most normal stats in MMO mechanics have diminishing marginal utility. Or soft diminishing returns in terms of value.

Crit is a chronic offender because plebs love to see big numbers and categorically ignore the fact that if they already have a ton of it, they should invest elsewhere.

Edit: Check this out; I put a lot of tender loving care into it: http://imgur.com/GpD1fh4

[Allyrion]

You're focusing too much on stats and damage; the question at hand is the value of the stats as they contribute to damage.

So you're talking about relative stat relations. That makes it clearer. This is where I misunderstood.
For monks, doesn't that give more value to crit?
By the same relation though, that gives a lot of value to crit. Our SS is off the charts compared to other classes since our base SS is affected by GL3.

GL3 is equivalent to roughly 400 skill speed. Add that our innate SS. Our crit should relatively be much higher, even with IR right?
I'd like a proper crit formula to get into this. I'm pretty sure 100 crit = 8% is not accurate.

Thanks for your reply anyway. At least I understand what you meant now.
This discussion also feels a little moot since there aren't that many gear choices anyway.

[EasymodeX]

By the same relation though, that gives a lot of value to crit. Our SS is off the charts compared to other classes since our base SS is affected by GL3.

That would be true if the "speed enhancement" from GL operated the same way as SS. It doesn't.

GL3 is equivalent to roughly 400 skill speed.

Specifically, this isn't very true.

However, the basic concept you mentioned is accurate.

... which is why Monks actually have a pretty good crit stat weight with 0 bootshine use despite having a traited IR.

I'd like a proper crit formula to get into this. I'm pretty sure 100 crit = 8% is not accurate.

The current formulas use 0.0693% * crit rating = crit%. Based on data compiled from beta: http://valk.dancing-mad.com/?page_id...riticalHitRate

[Sibe]

That would be true if the "speed enhancement" from GL operated the same way as SS. It doesn't.



Specifically, this isn't very true.

However, the basic concept you mentioned is accurate.

... which is why Monks actually have a pretty good crit stat weight with 0 bootshine use despite having a traited IR.



The current formulas use 0.0693% * crit rating = crit%. Based on data compiled from beta: http://valk.dancing-mad.com/?page_id...riticalHitRate

guys that site is updated from beta 4, i am not secure that is rly accurate, they don't give any update or news from 2 months, probably the owner of the site has left the game before completing the tests

[Powercow]

Crit is a chronic offender because plebs love to see big numbers and categorically ignore the fact that if they already have a ton of it, they should invest elsewhere.

In what current set can anyone actually get "a ton of it"? I'd really like to see this theoretical set of gear from the future.

And I showed my work. Your theory is fine. I integrated it above before you even posted it. The theory, however, does not have a significant impact on the way the class functions given the current level of gear. If we're all in ilvl 120 equipment and we're rolling with 40+% crit, then yes, your theory might actually make Skillspeed not a terrible stat. But as it stands, in no way, fight, gear setup, or non-terrible rotation does Skillspeed come even close to Crit in terms of its usefulness.

[EasymodeX]

And I showed my work.

Your "work" is asinine because you don't understand how to assess the value of marginal stat gains. Your entire "work" section doesn't even answer the question and uses an incorrect stat comparison and baseline since you have a half-assed understanding of what you're talking about. A little bit of knowledge is more dangerous and more prone to error than pure ignorance.

Your theory is fine.

I don't have a theory. I have cyclical model that simulates a hard rotation and models damage modifiers and statistical crit rates. The results are as they are.

But you don't even need to go that far. You need to simply have a coherent understanding of how to measure the +10 crit on a piece of gear under consideration.

in no way, fight, gear setup, or non-terrible rotation does Skillspeed come even close to Crit in terms of its usefulness.

If you use Bootshine at maximum potential, don't macro on-GCD abilities, and press buttonz properly, you will get relatively similar returns from CRT as SS. Any less efficiency with Bootshine and CRT pulls ahead. The TP consideration, in addition, results in a situation where players should lean towards CRT in all situations where the two are offered equally.