8 mans pointless now

[Myrik]

How are 8man dungeons useless now? OP, did you fail out of middle school math?
It's pretty obvious that once your Myth tomes are capped, CM/Prae are still optimal.
And if your group is great (1 tank, 1 healer, 6 dps), Garuda farming is better than AK.
So again... OP, did you flunk out of middle school math?

actually the fastest dungeon to do period is wanderers palace... soo maybe you should do a little more research before attacking me for no reason.. there is only one reason to continue doing castrum spirit-bonding is still fastest there.. but continue verbally attacking people you don't agree with for no reason at all.. I guess if it makes you feel better about whatever problems you have in your personal life go for it.

[BlossomRose]

Epic backpedaling.

Sorry but you're the one who came swinging calling dungeons "useless" when they are still regarded as just as viable by the majority of communities. You can run CM/Prae in about the same amount of time it takes to do WP (18~25 minutes) assuming you have an optimal relic+1 party, so it's really a matter of flavor once you're Myth capped. Some people prefer the 8mans, some prefer the 4mans, but I have seen zero evidence whatsoever that suggests the 8mans are "useless". And my initial post with times in it did not consider WP because it wasn't a popular speedrun option yet.

It pretty much comes down to personal preference, at least on Ultros. New speedrun times look something like this:

BEST RUNS I'VE DONE (FC PARTY OF TURN 4 CLEARERS, RELIC+1, DL+BC GEAR ONLY):

WP: 17m (5.88 tomes per minute)
CM: 19m (5.26 tomes per minute)
Prae: 18m (5.56 tomes per minute)
AK: 22m (4.55 tomes per minute)

AVERAGE PERSONAL RUNS WITH RANDOM /SHOUT GROUPS, as a Relic+1 BC tank:

WP: 25m (4 tomes per minute)
CM: 24m (4.17 tomes per minute)
Prae: 20m (5 tomes per minute)
AK: 30m (3.33 tomes per minute)

Naturally I'm only talking about Phil tomes. For Myth tomes... well honestly the best way to handle Myth tomes IMO is to do BC Turn 1-4 for 150, and then do 5 runs of WP in two hours, but to each their own.

So are 8mans useless? Feh, depends on your server, depends on who you play with, depends on your gear. The average /shout group seems to perform much better in the 8mans right now, but that could just be because people don't know how to rush WP very well yet, but they've had all the time in the world to practice CM and Prae.

Either way, the alarmist opinion that 8mans are now "pointless" "useless" "trash" "not worth doing" etc etc is just that, an opinion. That could change over time, but Prae and CM still have a very strong presence in the speedrun business, and they are much easier to speedrun when your gear sucks, compared to WP and AK. You can't look at this solely from the perspective of top gun guy with his Relic+1 and BC gear. You also have to look at it from the perspective of fresh 50's who want to start grinding their gear. And for them? CM and Prae is much easier, whereas WP and AK can be more punishing if a single group member is undergeared.

Another aspect to consider is gil; in that specific aspect, I will grant you that all dungeons besides WP are "useless". However, if you're speedrunning WP to make cash, you're doing it wrong. The real cash cows are the big crafting and gathering leves, gathering in general (at 50, anyway), and selling Titan runs if your FC is capable of it.

Finally, in terms of spiritbonding, it's pretty much CM or bust. Prae doesn't have enough mobs, WP mobs give almost no exp, and AK is... kinda sorta viable except if you're wearing gear to spiritbond it you'll be hurting the speedrun way more than if you were doing it in CM.

[Rainsford]

BEST RUNS I'VE DONE (FC PARTY OF TURN 4 CLEARERS, RELIC+1, DL+BC GEAR ONLY):

WP: 17m (5.88 tomes per minute)

AVERAGE PERSONAL RUNS WITH RANDOM /SHOUT GROUPS, as a Relic+1 BC tank:

WP: 25m (4 tomes per minute)

Wow, how is WP taking you that long with a full +1 group? I'm a SCH (so, not optimal for WP) who runs pretty consistently with a +1 tank, and we have no problem doing 14 minute runs with /shout regular relic/DL/ak gear BRD/BLM who we have to explain the run to each time.

Are you doing each pack on its own? You should be doing the first and second section in 2-pulls, and single pulling the third section. Even with derpy BLM's who die from standing in AOEs while double-casting Flare early on, it shouldn't take more than 15-16 minutes with non-+1's.

[Nichigo]

why do 8mans at all anymore?

Because the soundtrack is epic in the 8man dungeons.

If I could put praetorium's soundtrack in every dungeon, I would.

[Garnatian]

the 8 man dungeons are faster.

No, they aren't. Even with a bad group you can do WP in 25mins and with a good group you can do it in under 15 minutes, hell even under 10 minutes if you're geared like the Gods.

There is NO reason to ever run anything besides WP (unless you want to leech and spritbond).

[BlossomRose]

Wow, how is WP taking you that long with a full +1 group? I'm a SCH (so, not optimal for WP) who runs pretty consistently with a +1 tank, and we have no problem doing 14 minute runs with /shout regular relic/DL/ak gear BRD/BLM who we have to explain the run to each time.

Actually the problem is that I run with a monk and a dragoon most of the time. The AOE damage isn't what it could be. We also lose time going for the chests (I hear the more thorough speedruns skip them entirely but I like the extra income they generate). I believe current record is like, 9 minutes? But either way, point being, the 8man dungeons aren't useless or really THAT suboptimal unless you have the uberest of groups.

No, they aren't. Even with a bad group you can do WP in 25mins and with a good group you can do it in under 15 minutes, hell even under 10 minutes if you're geared like the Gods.

There is NO reason to ever run anything besides WP (unless you want to leech and spritbond).

Most people don't have access to super privileged mega groups +1 of cliqueness. Most people have to go with /shout groups. So, you know, in those cases, averages have told me it doesn't matter what you run, it's all pretty much the same thing.

You want to organize super groups for WP, you -can-, go ahead. But that doesn't make Prae/CM/AK worthless. Worthless to YOU maybe, and others with similar luck, but to newer players and such, each dungeon has its ups and downs.

[Garnatian]

Actually the problem is that I run with a monk and a dragoon most of the time. The AOE damage isn't what it could be. We also lose time going for the chests (I hear the more thorough speedruns skip them entirely but I like the extra income they generate). I believe current record is like, 9 minutes? But either way, point being, the 8man dungeons aren't useless or really THAT suboptimal unless you have the uberest of groups.

Most people don't have access to super privileged mega groups +1 of cliqueness. Most people have to go with /shout groups. So, you know, in those cases, averages have told me it doesn't matter what you run, it's all pretty much the same thing.

You want to organize super groups for WP, you -can-, go ahead. But that doesn't make Prae/CM/AK worthless. Worthless to YOU maybe, and others with similar luck, but to newer players and such, each dungeon has its ups and downs.

As I said, even a regular group can get WP done in 25 minutes which is faster than any other dungeon with regular people.

With regular groups you're talking 40m+ in AK, 35m+ in Castrum.

[BlossomRose]

As I said, even a regular group can get WP done in 25 minutes which is faster than any other dungeon with regular people.

With regular groups you're talking 40m+ in AK, 35m+ in Castrum.

Whaaaaaat. Wow your server must suck to be on. Prae and CM are 20-25 minutes, TOP, with a /shout group.

[Garnatian]

Whaaaaaat. Wow your server must suck to be on. Prae and CM are 20-25 minutes, TOP, with a /shout group.

Prove it. Show me you doing it with a pug group without any relics.

[BlossomRose]

Prove it. Show me you doing it with a pug group without any relics.

I said /shout group. Nowhere did I speak about gear. And I'm not going to go /shout LFM Prae NO RELICS OR I KICK YOU just to prove a point. Fact is if you shout LFM CM/Prae/AK/WP you're going to get a bunch of geared up 50's who want speedruns. But I guess if you shout for a non-relic group specifically, well, there's your problem.