8 mans pointless now

[BlossomRose]

How are 8man dungeons useless now? OP, did you fail out of middle school math?

AK averages 30-40 minutes depending on group, and gives 100/40 tomes.
CM averages 20-30 minutes depending on group, and gives 100/0 tomes.
Prae averages 18-30 minutes depending on group, and gives 100/0 tomes.
Garuda averages 5-7 minutes depending on group, and gives 15/10 tomes.

It's pretty obvious that once your Myth tomes are capped, CM/Prae are still optimal.

And if your group is great (1 tank, 1 healer, 6 dps), Garuda farming is better than AK.

So again... OP, did you flunk out of middle school math?

[Eliseus]

How are 8man dungeons useless now? OP, did you fail out of middle school math?

AK averages 30-40 minutes depending on group, and gives 100/40 tomes.
CM averages 20-30 minutes depending on group, and gives 100/0 tomes.
Prae averages 18-30 minutes depending on group, and gives 100/0 tomes.
Garuda averages 5-7 minutes depending on group, and gives 15/10 tomes.

It's pretty obvious that once your Myth tomes are capped, CM/Prae are still optimal.

And if your group is great (1 tank, 1 healer, 6 dps), Garuda farming is better than AK.

So again... OP, did you flunk out of middle school math?

Before you mock the OP you should probably get your times correct. I assume by your "averages" the first number is suppose to be at it's best (considering you put 18min prae run). Not only are most groups at it's best not doing 18 runs still, but at it's best, people can do 17, 18min AK runs (even faster then that, but I put some leniency due to the fact that not many people will be). On top of that, you can also turn AK gear in for GC seals if people like that. And offers more gil for the trash mobs that are actually killed.

A lot of this is based off of "great groups" also since you point out one for Garuda mind you.

[BlossomRose]

Before you mock the OP you should probably get your times correct. I assume by your "averages" the first number is suppose to be at it's best (considering you put 18min prae run). Not only are most groups at it's best not doing 18 runs still, but at it's best, people can do 17, 18min AK runs (even faster then that, but I put some leniency due to the fact that not many people will be). On top of that, you can also turn AK gear in for GC seals if people like that. And offers more gil for the trash mobs that are actually killed.

A lot of this is based off of "great groups" also since you point out one for Garuda mind you.

This is based on "average time people would expect out of speedruns with a full DL group". Yes, it could be even FASTER with a full relic+1 group that's on voice chat and using unorthodox techniques (pulling half of AK and doing it in one big aoe pull, etc). But those are the exceptions more than the norm.

Point being, 8mans aren't useless AT ALL, and doing AK all day every day gets old ANYWAY.

[Eliseus]

This is based on "average time people would expect out of speedruns with a full DL group". Yes, it could be even FASTER with a full relic+1 group that's on voice chat and using unorthodox techniques (pulling half of AK and doing it in one big aoe pull, etc). But those are the exceptions more than the norm.

Point being, 8mans aren't useless AT ALL, and doing AK all day every day gets old ANYWAY.

You can't put down to expect more than the norm on fights like garuda and praetorium, but not except to have more then the norm on ak lol. If you are putting averages out based off the performance of the group, your averages would be wrong (for example, no one will be doing 18min runs or 1 tank 1 healer on garuda).

[BlossomRose]

You can't put down to expect more than the norm on fights like garuda and praetorium, but not except to have more then the norm on ak lol. If you are putting averages out based off the performance of the group, your averages would be wrong (for example, no one will be doing 18min runs or 1 tank 1 healer on garuda).

Actually, 1 tank 1 healer 6 dps has become the norm on Ultros for farming Garuda, so huh... maybe not on Hyperion? But on Ultros that's how it goes. Ditto for Praetorium.

[Eliseus]

Actually, 1 tank 1 healer 6 dps has become the norm on Ultros for farming Garuda, so huh... maybe not on Hyperion? But on Ultros that's how it goes. Ditto for Praetorium.

You aren't getting it.

[BlossomRose]

You aren't getting it.

No, it's you who isn't getting it. The times I posted are average for a RANDOM PUG GROUP YOU CAN FIND IN REVENANT'S TOLL. All of the times I posted. All of them. They are all average for what you'll get out of a speed run group. ALL. OF. THE. TIMES. Are THE AVERAGE. For people on Ultros. Maybe your server is slower, maybe it's faster, I don't care.

Point being, those are the times ON ULTROS. They are AVERAGES of what the COMMON PUG can expect.

Dedicated, organized groups are even faster. That's fine. I don't care. I'm talking for the average people here.

[Myrik]

still didn't even mention wp.. which is faster than all of the above.. so what does school have to do with the fact that you don't know what you are talking about?

[Myrik]

How are 8man dungeons useless now? OP, did you fail out of middle school math?
It's pretty obvious that once your Myth tomes are capped, CM/Prae are still optimal.
And if your group is great (1 tank, 1 healer, 6 dps), Garuda farming is better than AK.
So again... OP, did you flunk out of middle school math?

actually the fastest dungeon to do period is wanderers palace... soo maybe you should do a little more research before attacking me for no reason.. there is only one reason to continue doing castrum spirit-bonding is still fastest there.. but continue verbally attacking people you don't agree with for no reason at all.. I guess if it makes you feel better about whatever problems you have in your personal life go for it.

[BlossomRose]

Epic backpedaling.

Sorry but you're the one who came swinging calling dungeons "useless" when they are still regarded as just as viable by the majority of communities. You can run CM/Prae in about the same amount of time it takes to do WP (18~25 minutes) assuming you have an optimal relic+1 party, so it's really a matter of flavor once you're Myth capped. Some people prefer the 8mans, some prefer the 4mans, but I have seen zero evidence whatsoever that suggests the 8mans are "useless". And my initial post with times in it did not consider WP because it wasn't a popular speedrun option yet.

It pretty much comes down to personal preference, at least on Ultros. New speedrun times look something like this:

BEST RUNS I'VE DONE (FC PARTY OF TURN 4 CLEARERS, RELIC+1, DL+BC GEAR ONLY):

WP: 17m (5.88 tomes per minute)
CM: 19m (5.26 tomes per minute)
Prae: 18m (5.56 tomes per minute)
AK: 22m (4.55 tomes per minute)

AVERAGE PERSONAL RUNS WITH RANDOM /SHOUT GROUPS, as a Relic+1 BC tank:

WP: 25m (4 tomes per minute)
CM: 24m (4.17 tomes per minute)
Prae: 20m (5 tomes per minute)
AK: 30m (3.33 tomes per minute)

Naturally I'm only talking about Phil tomes. For Myth tomes... well honestly the best way to handle Myth tomes IMO is to do BC Turn 1-4 for 150, and then do 5 runs of WP in two hours, but to each their own.

So are 8mans useless? Feh, depends on your server, depends on who you play with, depends on your gear. The average /shout group seems to perform much better in the 8mans right now, but that could just be because people don't know how to rush WP very well yet, but they've had all the time in the world to practice CM and Prae.

Either way, the alarmist opinion that 8mans are now "pointless" "useless" "trash" "not worth doing" etc etc is just that, an opinion. That could change over time, but Prae and CM still have a very strong presence in the speedrun business, and they are much easier to speedrun when your gear sucks, compared to WP and AK. You can't look at this solely from the perspective of top gun guy with his Relic+1 and BC gear. You also have to look at it from the perspective of fresh 50's who want to start grinding their gear. And for them? CM and Prae is much easier, whereas WP and AK can be more punishing if a single group member is undergeared.

Another aspect to consider is gil; in that specific aspect, I will grant you that all dungeons besides WP are "useless". However, if you're speedrunning WP to make cash, you're doing it wrong. The real cash cows are the big crafting and gathering leves, gathering in general (at 50, anyway), and selling Titan runs if your FC is capable of it.

Finally, in terms of spiritbonding, it's pretty much CM or bust. Prae doesn't have enough mobs, WP mobs give almost no exp, and AK is... kinda sorta viable except if you're wearing gear to spiritbond it you'll be hurting the speedrun way more than if you were doing it in CM.