Dragoons: A Rotation Reborn

[ManLet]

How are dragoons in terms of DPS? Do bards just gain a ton of threat, or are they really doing that much damage?

[xyaie]

I'm curious, I'm not a dragoon... how long given a boss fight where the dragoon doesn't have to move can they maintain that ideal rotation before running out of tp?

easymodeX covers this in post 52 and 63. With invig you have about 150 seconds before you "run out of TP", meaning you can only do ~75% of your rotation

with a bard using their TP song on CD i dont believe you would run out. skill speed effects all of this

How are dragoons in terms of DPS? Do bards just gain a ton of threat, or are they really doing that much damage?

I dont have enough to say that they fully outdps us or we outdps them as a while, but bards do get TONS of threat. Testing it, my GF was able to do almost half my damage and still have more threat than me. I can only guess this is based on how many buffs they constantly use (each buff has a set amount of threat, songs are even moreso as each target buffed is a set amount of threat).

Many people show bards as the top DPS, personally in my experience monks are, but both of these are based on examples seen, not enough sample sizes to really say anything about it.

[Ayvar]

I dont have enough to say that they fully outdps us or we outdps them as a while, but bards do get TONS of threat. Testing it, my GF was able to do almost half my damage and still have more threat than me. I can only guess this is based on how many buffs they constantly use (each buff has a set amount of threat, songs are even moreso as each target buffed is a set amount of threat).

Many people show bards as the top DPS, personally in my experience monks are, but both of these are based on examples seen, not enough sample sizes to really say anything about it.

xyaie and his ever changing avatar as he acquires more gear is correct. The issue with attempting to assess what class does what dps is that there is no currently reliable method of doing so. You can't use threat meters, dps parsers are currently the best method but they are estimating DoT damage and not actually measuring it, and peoples gear is so widely different that it makes comparisons essentially impossible (for now). Until the data gets cleaned up, which probably won't happen for quite awhile (or until SE allows mods), your best bet is to optimize yourself as best you can and try to find the class you enjoy playing. If you enjoy playing the class with the highest dps, well then no one will have any good answers for you other than "lol summs are shit" and "omg no summs are amazing you're an idiot" rinse repeat x40million.

Not sure what it says about me, but its really getting to me that I cant contribute more to this conversation . As is I only have an hour or two a day to play and use it for things other than testing. Ill get an off day sooner or later!

Great work guys. (Not sure if both are guys..)

Considering what you did for the stat weights I'd say you've already done quite a bit. Right now on my end it's difficult to make anymore progress than I already have until I see Titan HM and Coil, which will probably be awhile.

Also I added your stat numbers to the second section of the guide (with credit) so people can get to them easily. If you have any adjustments to make to them (or any info on accuracy!) let me know and I'll edit that section for you.

[Cingen]

On a slightly related note, is there a way to have only your own debuffs show on the enemy? I am struggling ALOT to find my DoTs etc on the enemy when a full group is attacking him :/ It basically screw up my flow..

Edit: Is there anywhere listed what these acronyms mean? I know most of them but others...

[Ayvar]

On a slightly related note, is there a way to have only your own debuffs show on the enemy? I am struggling ALOT to find my DoTs etc on the enemy when a full group is attacking him :/ It basically screw up my flow..

Edit: Is there anywhere listed what these acronyms mean? I know most of them but others...

Only the green numbers can help you now! The best way I've found to keep track of your buffs is to nail down the rotation. If you get your move order correct then you don't need to worry about what is an isn't up since the rotation handles that for you. Another way is to use the Heavy Thrust buff as this is easily see in your own buff list. Since we've sync'd up the timers on Heavy Thrust, Fracture and Phlebotomize you know that as heavy thrust is wearing off all three of these abilities will have to be reapplied.

As for the acronyms, I go through most of them in the initial post, but here's a quick rundown:

HT/H - Heavy Thrust
Fr/F - Fracture
Ph/P - Phlebotomize
ID-Dis-CT/IDC - Impulse Drive --> Disembowel --> Chaos Thrust
TT-VT-FT/TTT - True Thrust --> Vorpal Thrust --> Full Trust

[Cingen]

As for the acronyms, I go through most of them in the initial post, but here's a quick rundown:

HT/H - Heavy Thrust
Fr/F - Fracture
Ph/P - Phlebotomize
ID-Dis-CT/IDC - Impulse Drive --> Disembowel --> Chaos Thrust
TT-VT-FT/TTT - True Thrust --> Vorpal Thrust --> Full Trust

Thanks! The F / IDC / TTT etc were what confused me, was looking everywhere for a skill that could have IDC as an acronym! Didn't know it was a rotation and not an attack, thanks alot for clearing that up

[OniZame]

starting dragoon.. after read 1st post make me rethink... lol -_-

[Cingen]

starting dragoon.. after read 1st post make me rethink... lol -_-

It's not too bad if you think of it like certain blocks. I just think of an entire combo as one block and that really simplifies it alot

[xyaie]

Considering what you did for the stat weights I'd say you've already done quite a bit. Right now on my end it's difficult to make anymore progress than I already have until I see Titan HM and Coil, which will probably be awhile.

Also I added your stat numbers to the second section of the guide (with credit) so people can get to them easily. If you have any adjustments to make to them (or any info on accuracy!) let me know and I'll edit that section for you.

Lol, I wish it was acquiring gear. dragoon is 50. If a 50 logs out they don't get rested xp so I log out as other classes.

The stat weights were napkin math compared to you two's work. EasymodeX mentioned a spreadsheet and im curious about it. My plan was to Tuesday make one for all the classes where you can put in your stats and get the weights adjusted to what you currently have. Then try to get where I can put in rotations and get a full traditional "you get x amount of dps with y stats and z rotation"

[ManLet]

HT-PH-FR, IDC offset

HPF IDC ttt
HPF ttt IDC
HPF ttt ttt

t 64.8
D 7208.3
TP 1860
TPS 28.7
DPT 3.9
DPS 111.2

IDC, interleaved alt PH/HT + FR

IDC H ttt FP ttt H
IDC P ttt HF ttt P

t 62.4
D 7040
TP 1780
TPS 28.5
DPT 4.0
DPS 112.8

HT-PH, IDC offset (no FR)

HP IDC ttt
HP ttt IDC
HP ttt ttt

t 57.6
D 6483.4
TP 1620
TPS 28.1
DPT 4.0
DPS 112.6

IDC, interleaved alt PH/HT (no FR)

IDC H ttt P ttt H
IDC P ttt H ttt P

t 57.6
D 6527.4
TP 1620
TPS 28.1
DPT 4.0
DPS 113.3

KISS: IDC PH/HT flat (similar to what Ricauer posted, but fixed, because his filler sets were reversed :P)

HP IDC ttt
HP ttt ttt

t 38.4
D 4281.2
TP 1080
TPS 28.1
DPT 4.0
DPS 111.5

Is this accurate for a patchwerk fight?