Dragoons: A Rotation Reborn

[Swarna]

I think it would be an interesting simulation exercise to compare HT-ROT[3] versus alternating ST[3] + DS[3], though.

I would definitely be interested in that. Without any proof or calculations I have a nagging suspicion that the latter is superior for pulls where you use BfB simply because you fit a higher proportion of your damage potential into the limited 20s duration (Doom Spikes) rather than an equal proportion of it (HT-ROT is constant throughout).

e.g.

if HT-ROT is equal to HT-ROT>DS<>ST
then:
HT-ROT<>(HT-ROT) is weaker than (DS)<>ST

Where the () denotes when you are using BfB.

Without more in-depth calculations I can't confirm this, though.

[Ayvar]

You sure about that?

Assuming HT buff:

HT-ROT (3 targets): (170+150*3)/(70+120)= ~3.26 DPT, 310 DPG
CT combo (4 out of 10 CT ticks): (180+220+160*1.11+20*4)/(70+60+60)= ~3.46 DPT, 219.2 DPG
FT combo: ((150+200+300))*1.11/(70+60+60)= ~3.42 DPT, 216.7 DPG
CT combo (10 out of 10 CT ticks): (180+220+160*1.11+20*10)/(70+60+60)= ~4.09 DPT, 259.2 DPG
FT combo (Dis. debuff): ((150+200+300))*1.11/(70+60+60)= ~3.80 DPT, 240.5 DPG

It seems like all CT/FT combo variants are superior per TP (for 3 targets) and if you're aiming for damage/global for bursting (BfB, etc.) you may as well use 3-target DS (3 DPT, 480 DPG).

I think you're looking at how AE works from the wrong angle (also some of the numbers are a little off since if you're assuming HT buff is up then you need to apply it to HT-RoT). You might get slightly higher damage for your TP from single target abilities, but you're only applying that damage to a single mob. For example, take a fully buffed set of single target moves, and compare those to a buffed AE moveset.

HT must be refreshed if down, and DE must be applied to each mob, so you'd get this:
170+198+242+181+242+363

HT buffed HT-RoT gives a potency of:
170-165 followed by 187-165


We'll consider a pack of 3 mobs, each of which requires 1000 potency to kill. With Full Thrust the process would look like this:
HT-ID-Dis-TT-VT *switch* FT-ID-Dis-HT *switch* ID-Dis-TT-VT-FT *done*
170+198+242+181+242=1033 *mob 1 dies* 330+198+242+187=957 *mob 2 dies* 198+242+181+242+363=1226 *mob 3 dies*

Give or take some autoattack damage (such as on mob #2 which I cut at 957 cause an autoattack would make up the difference), it'll take somewhere around 12-14 GCDs to kill all 3.

With HT-RoT it looks like this (M1=mob 1):
HT@M1-RoT | HT@M2-RoT | HT@M3-RoT | HT@M1-RoT | HT@M2 | ID-Dis@M3
170-165 | 187-165 | 187-165 | 187-165 *mob 1 dies* | 187 *mob 2 dies* | 198-242 *mob 3 dies*

Most of the mobs were dead after 9 GCDs, with two extra used to kill off the final mob with single target damage.

You might get slightly more damage for your TP on a single target, but the overall group damage is much lower and so everything will take longer to kill.

[Swarna]

I think you're looking at how AE works from the wrong angle...

Look at what I was replying to. I was simply making the point that every variant of single-target chains yields higher damage per TP spent. I didn't make the case that it cuts down clearing time or that it boasted a higher damage per global (I actually showed that it was higher for HT-ROT with the stated DPG values). It's already very obvious that HT-ROT spam can kill a group of 3 in less globals than just single-targeting so your simulation of an example of events isn't contradicting anything I said.

[Ayvar]

Look at what I was replying to. I was simply making the point that every variant of single-target chains yields higher damage per TP spent. I didn't make the case that it cuts down clearing time or that it boasted a higher damage per global (I actually showed that it was higher for HT-ROT with the stated DPG values). It's already very obvious that HT-ROT spam can kill a group of 3 in less globals than just single-targeting so your simulation of an example of events isn't contradicting anything I said.

Except that you also calculated the damage for HT-RoT incorretly by applying damage buffs to all the other formula, but not to it. In addition, there's not much of a point to showing that single target abilities are 0.7 TP per second more efficient than AE abilities, but you'd still AE anyway because it's way better damage for almost the exact same TP cost. It's information that no one can use for anything.

[pandabearcat]

Make sure you credit the panda rotation once you become the best dragoon ever.

[mythicrose]

Make sure you credit the panda rotation once you become the best dragoon ever.

President Panda , making dps rotation affordable to all:

"You can keep your rotation if you like."

We'll see how that goes. Ill get she is gonna force us to change and put small non theorycrafting free companies out of business

More like she'll introduce a tax on theorycrafters for their "cadillac" dps rotations...

[xyaie]

President Panda , making dps rotation affordable to all:

"You can keep your rotation if you like."

We'll see how that goes. Ill get she is gonna force us to change and put small non theorycrafting free companies out of business

[Raminax]

Probably wrong thread to ask (though I'll admit it's lovely), but is anyone else having issues with Leg Sweep's stun not seeming to exist? Does anyone know what triggers it?

To be specific, at times when I perform Leg Sweep, I'll cause the damage and nothing else. I'm not getting any "Stun (Resisted!)" messages popping up. It just seems to act as if there actually isn't a stun component to the skill. It's quite rare that it happens. I usually try interrupting things such as 100-Tonze Swings if the tank is struggling to avoid them, and the stun of Leg Sweep not registering is... both painful and annoying. -_- Am I missing something here? Is there some separate accuracy check for the Stun? Or does it require you to hit from a particular angle, such as the Impulse Drive combo or Heavy Thrust?

[EasymodeX]

I usually try interrupting things such as 100-Tonze Swings if the tank is struggling to avoid them, and the stun of Leg Sweep not registering is...

There are two different things.

1. A stun can be resisted if you've hit diminishing returns. You're not seeing this; this is not what is happening.

2. Many boss attacks cannot be interrupted. The bosses are immune to stun -- not because of diminishing returns (Resisted!), but because they are coded to give a big F U ,,|,, to interrupt mechanics.


You're seeing #2. Run away from 100-Tonze Swing .

[Ayvar]

Probably wrong thread to ask (though I'll admit it's lovely), but is anyone else having issues with Leg Sweep's stun not seeming to exist? Does anyone know what triggers it?

Leg Sweep is notoriously unreliable. From my experience whether or not the stun will apply depends entirely on when you use it during your usual ability spam. If you use an ability whose animation is easily canceled then Leg Sweep should be fine, however other abilities do not interrupt as easily and this seems to balls up whether the stun is applied or not. It doesn't matter if you get the stun off while the spell is still casting, it still won't apply (you'll even see the little "+Stun" thing in the scrolling combat text).

It's pretty annoying.