Dragoons: A Rotation Reborn

[EasymodeX]

Would anyone happen to have any insight as to what a good rotation would be For the Dragoon on Ps3 as we can only get a maximum of 16 spots for our keys unless of course we keep cycling through our bars

The top 4 rotations I've modeled so far are*:

1. 128.3 PPS

H IDC P TTT H TTT
P IDC H TTT P TTT

2. 125.4 PPS

HP IDC TTT
HP TTT TTT

3. 125.2 PPS

HFP IDC TTT
HFP TTT IDC
HFP TTT TTT

4. 125.0 PPS

HPF IDC TTT


Rotation #2 and #4 are both pretty simple / straightforward and maintain very good DPS (less then 2.6% difference than the current top DPS). Rotations #1 and #3 are more complex.


* All PPS estimates are @2.4 GCD and crit-adjusted with an assumed 25% crit rate, so they are higher than numbers earlier in this thread, and none include autoattacks. Credit for #4 should go to a random dude on GameFAQs.

[Ayvar]

Phew, there have been some great questions in the last day or so, I'll deal with the simpler ones first then we'll delve into the harder questions.

Easy linked this and so far, according to parses, with other people running them. NOBODY has beat me. The only person to even come close was my bard friend with garuda weapon. I even beat two relic weapon monks...

Please please please will people stop referring to parses/threat meters as proof of your damage output compared to other players. I am not saying Dragoons do not have the potential to perform excellent dps, but there is currently no reliable method of comparing our damage to the other classes. Right now what we should be concerned with is optimizing our own class, and we'll worry about how we compare to others when we have an accurate means with which to do this.

If another DRG is keeping up IDC, would it be more beneficial to go...

The problem with skipping IDC when other Dragoons are present is that you still want the CT DoT to be applied (assuming it will tick for the full duration) as this is a higher potency combo than TVF, something I do discuss in the original post. The only way to do this is through the IDC rotation, which will apply Disembowel for you whether you like it or not anyway.

So let's say I'm fighting a boss that is not resistant to slow. Would fracture be the best option to replace do feint instead?

Yes, Fracture is an excellent ability to replace with Feint as they both have the same duration (so it wont screw up the rotation) and Fracture is your weakest DoT. It's also why I like getting used to the rotation that includes Fracture, since it makes it very simple to swap abilities in and out if you need to.

Honestly, this rotation is good and all but its weakness is situational events. At best, it helps you understand what your priorities are but take it with a big grain of salt...Anyway, finding the most optimal and realistic rotation is sure to take some trial and error--honestly.

However this entire rotation falls apart in any boss fight and that is the crux of my problem. This rotation is too long and too precise to be used. There is not a single boss where i can the full 1 minute + long rotation off and even missing 3-4 seconds throws the entire thing out of whack beyond normal repair.

So my question would be how to salvage an interrupted rotation?

Most of the time I find im forced to start again regardless but i do wonder if there is a better way.

I can see how the "rotations" may seem daunting and unrealistic, but we have taken pains to make their execution as realistic and player friendly as possible (for example the flow chart I added to the OP), though I can only say this of my own rotation and I'll leave other people to discuss this of theirs.

First understand that the rotation is designed around priority. For now we'll ignore the idea that you cannot execute the full rotation (this is incorrect as I have personally completed it in every dungeon, sub-boss of the relic quest, and Hard Mode fight, haven't been in coil yet though). By default it assumes that at some point during the rotation you are likely to be interrupted (due to movement or ground AE). Using this assumption, it prioritizes the most important buffs and strongest attacks first, leaving your weaker attacks as the filler. Let's move through the priority thought process of the rotation that I outlne:

Move 1

You'll always get more than one attack on a boss, so start getting damage buffs up (Heavy Thrust is a single GCD ability that gets your buffs rolling, so I use it first). I discuss this in the buff section, but even for very short duration movesets buffs are very important to get active quickly.

Move 2

If the interruption occurs after this ability, you want to have used your highest single-GCD potency attack. That's Phlebotomize (290 unbuffed potency).

Move 3

If the interruption occurs after this ability, you want to use the next highest single-GCD potency attack. That's Fracture (220 potency).

Move 4/5/6

Your rotation is still uninterrupted, what do you do next? Both DoTs and HT are running, so reapplying them is a loss of potency. Now you have to choose between your combos. If you believe Chaos Thrust will have time to tick then IDC is your highest potency combo, so move into it next. If it wont have time then you at least want Disembowel since ID is a potent two move combo and buffs any moves you happen to use afterwards. This is the first real decision you have to make as to whether you depart from the predetermined rotation or not. Also remember that CT only has to tick for half of its duration (180-220-160/100=660 vs 650 from TVF) to be worth the GCD. This is almost always the case, so IDC is the most frequent choice here. If you know the boss is going to teleport soon (i.e. Garuda) then you can switch for ID-TVF since you don't really care about creating a clean rotation because the boss is teleporting away anyway.

Move 7/8/9

You've made it this far, but you've applied all of your damage buffs and DoTs, so now you just use TVF until its refresh time.


If you use a rotation based around priority then it doesn't matter if it is interrupted because you are already executing your most important abilities first as part of the rotation. In terms of what to do after your rotation is interrupted I find the Heavy Thrust buff to be the easiest guide since it's easy to see (you don't have to hunt for it on the bosses debuff list) and the rotation is designed around its reapplication with Phlebotomize and Fracture. If your HT buff is up for another ~6s then you know you can move into TVF (there is no situation where HT will have this duration left on it and you should be moving into IDC, it will always be TVF if HT still has about 6s left on it) followed by HPF, so the next 6 moves are already mapped out just by looking at your HT buff. If the HT buff is off or about to come off then you already know your next three abilities (HT-P-Fr), giving you time to find your IDC debuffs in the list and see if they need refreshed. If the HT buff has longer, say ~10-11s, then you might have to refresh IDC, but this rarely occurs since most significant periods of interruption will bring your HT buff down enough that it will need to be reapplied soon.

Interrupting a rotation designed using priority will make no difference since priority is taking the inevitable interruptions into account. The rotation does not require its full completion to be effective, it's merely an outline of the move order you should use if your uptime happens to last long enough to allow multiple reapplications of your buffs and debuffs.

[ArkKenea]

He meant he will tackle that issue next and the description is self explanatory because as of now, nobody knows with certainty what the accuracy cap is.



From a pure DPS standpoint, Feint isn't useful as it's only 120 potency. You would have a net DPS decrease. It's a situational ability.

So let's say I'm fighting a boss that is not resistant to slow. Would fracture be the best option to replace do feint instead?

[Kingpotato]

This is very useful information though troubling as well.

As a heavy theory crafting rogue in wow for a long time I'm well versed to min maxing and my rotation and was only missing fracture from the most optimized rotation (I was just pondering how to best use that 1 extra move slot that was messing my rotation). Having read this It helps to know which moves i can dump completely from my bar and which i need to give priority (and recommendations for cross class skills).

However this entire rotation falls apart in any boss fight and that is the crux of my problem. This rotation is too long and too precise to be used. There is not a single boss where i can the full 1 minute + long rotation off and even missing 3-4 seconds throws the entire thing out of whack beyond normal repair.

So my question would be how to salvage an interrupted rotation?

Most of the time I find im forced to start again regardless but i do wonder if there is a better way.

[Kingpotato]

Should I simply skip the Main FT combo (seems it would hurt your dps alot)?
Say only the pierce buff/heavy thrust is up should i FT combo till it expires? Should I immediately place my dots and start again? Or do i simply restart the entire rotation from scratch.

Finding the best rotation is a simple proccess, the fact i missed fracture is more about the lack of information on the dots (I still have no idea how much they actually do, so how could i factor them in?). Its finding the best rotation that you can crank out when forced to move from cleaves, hide behind rocks and switch targets every 20 seconds that is the key. But alas something in my current state of health I can't muster (suffer from permanent headache, heavy "thinking" worsens it)

Though chances are simply restarting the whole rotation is the best approach, though it wastes such potential our class has.

[Sinnermighty]

If another DRG is keeping up IDC, would it be more beneficial to go:

HP - ttt - ttt
HP - ttt - ttt

or

HPF - ttt - ttt
HPF - ttt - ttt

[Sakia]

Honestly, this rotation is good and all but its weakness is situational events. At best, it helps you understand what your priorities are but take it with a big grain of salt.

I've been testing this rotation, specifically the ID chain that culminates with Chaos Trust and isn't always a for sure land/activate. Some bosses have retarded hit boxes and even though you're on their asses, it may not register. Hell, heavy thrust does this pretty damn frequently. It's a joke. ^^;

Kind of brings me back to what I've been thinking since Beta, the skills and their rotations/combos seem very poorly thought out. There's so many skills and so many quirks with them that they seem almost worthless wasting your time using all of them, especially with GCD being what it is. GAH! Anyway, finding the most optimal and realistic rotation is sure to take some trial and error--honestly.

[reiphil]

There's a lot to read to this thread.

I had a question for you about Fracture though.

I don't personally use it but am wondering if the dot component is worth it. Here is my current rotation, which, without fracture, is much simpler than your proposed:

HT-PH-ID-Dis-CT-TT-VT-FT-HT-PH-TT-VT-FT-TT-VT-FT

How it works out is this:

HT-PH-ID-Dis-CT - HT/PH have 10s left. Dis/CT have 30
TT-VT-FT - HT/PH are at 1s~, dis/ct have 20
HT - PH - now ht/ph/dis/ct are all at about 20
TT-VT-FT-TT-VT-FT - all buffs/debuffs about to wear off, reapply from the start

[EasymodeX]

There's a lot to read to this thread.

HT-PH-ID-Dis-CT-TT-VT-FT-HT-PH-TT-VT-FT-TT-VT-FT

That does slightly more DPS than the OP's rotation.

It is the "HP IDC TTT // HP TTT TTT" rotation I listed in my post. We just use 1 letter for the abilities because it sucks to type them all out (and read them).

[o0sky0o]

To Visualize EasymodeX's simple and more complicated no Fracture rotation ->

http://imgur.com/Nmr1c4g