Alpha Video 4- Quests and Battle

[Wolfie]

There, you see? I say "being a Guild Leader", you say "video gaming?? Lolz."

How normal is it to play MMOs again, to society? Remember the circus show that is the VGAs.

On the same level as it is to play non-MMO games.

Which was not the case 1998-2004, when only the 'weirdos' played MMOs.

[Kallera]

On the same level as it is to play non-MMO games.

Which was not the case 1998-2004, when only the 'weirdos' played MMOs.

I'm pretty sure many non-MMO gamer would object to that. Which doesn't even tie into how non gamers view MMO gamers.

[Imoen]

Imoen makes a very good point. If you do these quests once say as a lowbie lancer, will you be able to do the same quests as a lowbie conjurer? Or will you be using leves or getting into exp party grinds? If there are 3 different options to level, the more the better is what I say.

Per the questing argument, good game design is developing quests that have a natural progression along with your character. There should be some reward (just like in most FF games) for exploring a whole town and talking to every npc. I don't see any issue if some of these quests do not tell you exactly where to go but that you may uncover it further down the road due to your dedication to exploration and investigation. So I think both sides have valid points.

If a quest says go kill 6 hogs down by the lake and they also put it on your map, np. There should be a quest too when you open a secret door in a shop or house, you talk to an npc mentioning how they wish to be reunited with their brother but haven't heard where he went. Through your exploration and talking to everyone, certain npcs give you clues and maybe you find him a couple levels later and the reward is higher than kill 6 hogs.

Glad someone read it haha.

Ya there is no reason they won't have some more complex interesting quests scattered through out too. Not to mention the main story/class/job/grand company specific quests etc...

In regards to what Velhart said, I really hope not all of them reset after a certain time limit. I don't mind some repeatable quests but if they all do this then it will get old, I really don't mind the idea of running out of quests by my 2nd or 3rd job then having to wait for more to be implemented and finding alternative ways of leveling in the mean time.

[Preypacer]

I'm actually kind of glad Yoshi said that they're not likely to do much more than stress test and resolve critical bugs in the Alpha, instead of design changes. If they do design changes based on the feedback of people like Preypacer, this game will be dead in another year or two.

Annnd... what feedback is that, exactly, Wolfie?

You mean the feedback that I'd prefer to have a well-written quest give me adequate information on what I need to do and some hints on whereabouts I'll need to do it - and then leave me to do the rest myself without the hand-holding?

You mean the feedback that I'd rather be the one actively engaged in locating/solving/completing the quest objective(s) - however simple - rather than having every single detail pointed out to the extent that I don't have to read a word of the quest dialog, don't have to know what I'm after or why I should care?

You mean because I want to actually be given some role in my character's progression beyond "running toward the floating quest objective markers that are impossible to miss", or maybe actually be challenged in some way, rather than having everything spoon-fed to me because the powers-that-be at SE think I'm too stupid, lazy or impatient to figure it out on my own?

That's the "feedback" you feel would have the game dead in 2 years? Taking off the training wheels, cutting the umbilical cord and letting us actually -gasp- fulfill the challenges issued to us.. on our own?

Would that kind of gameplay, being more involved in actually solving the tasks given to you, scare you off, Wolfie? Is that the real issue you have here? Note that I'm asking you a question here. I'm not making an assertion.

If that's the case, and people truly do prefer being coddled and having their hands held through even the most menial and mundane of tasks - lest they be "scared off" by having to figure things out for themselves - then perhaps SE is right and players really are just that stupid, lazy or impatient.

It's funny (but not at all surprising) that of all the people refuting my posts, either directly or indirectly, in this thread and another on the same topic, there's been only one or two people who have actually responded to what I said. Their responses - while divergent from my own views - have been reasonable and relevant. Everyone else, yourself included, has ignored or otherwise twisted it out of context into some ridiculous strawman, just so they could tear it down.

But then I guess that's typical around here, isn't it. Someone makes an argument you don't like but can't adequately refute on its own merits? No problem! Just twist their arguments into something else that you can refute and then rip it to shreds.

[Wolfie]

Feedback from players who honestly believe that having information be available in-game is the mark of laziness and stupidity; that skill and challenge are derived out deciphering poorly worded and cryptic quest goals instead of the actual combat or puzzles of the quest; and that having content that is delivered in a more modern or piecemeal fashion means that it's poorly written.

Your thought process is cancer to MMO gaming, and I'm glad you're of a dying breed. People like you are what made FFXIV 1.0 into what it was.

[AzuraSin]

Someone makes an argument you don't like but can't adequately refute on its own merits? No problem! Just twist their arguments into something else that you can refute and then rip it to shreds.

or post a gif, don't forget that one.

[Preypacer]

You say this...

Feedback from players who honestly believe that having information be available in-game is the mark of laziness and stupidity; that skill and challenge are derived out deciphering poorly worded and cryptic quest goals instead of the actual combat or puzzles of the quest; and that having content that is delivered in a more modern or piecemeal fashion means that it's poorly written.

... in direct response to a post where I say this:

You mean the feedback that I'd prefer to have a well-written quest give me adequate information on what I need to do and some hints on whereabouts I'll need to do it - and then leave me to do the rest myself without the hand-holding?

In other words, you're doing exactly what I note later in my post:

Everyone else, yourself included, has ignored or otherwise twisted it out of context into some ridiculous strawman, just so they could tear it down.

Thank you for proving my point, and I rest my case.

You have no viable counter-argument, so you're just making shit up.

Furthermore, at no point have I said "players are too stupid". My complaint has been that SE seems to feel players (that would include myself, mind you), are too stupid to figure things out on their own.

I personally believe gamers are actually quite smart and could figure those things out on their own, given enough adequate info. This is why I find the excessive hand-holding to be patronizing and offensive. See the difference?

You should really take some time away from forums and work on your reading comprehension skills.

As for me being a cancer to MMOs... Right. Because people who are willing, capable and not at all put off by being challenged in even the slightest amount are what's plaguing the genre. Of course.

You are so deluded it's almost sad.

[Wolfie]

They actually required you to use your brain - which of course, in today's MMO market is tantamount to asking many to poke their own eye out with a hot stick.

Yeah, not calling people stupid or anything.

Whatever dude.

At this point I should be taking a break from the forums indeed, because the more I read posts from and talk with anti-progressive holier-than-thous, the more I sink into an alcoholic depression.

[Zumi]

Only in the FF community would you have people arguing against ease of use features such as quest helpers. Get over yourselves its questing to level up which people want to do as quick as possible. You probably won't even touch questing outside of leveling.

The quest tracking is a feature that was originally a fan made addon in WoW. Blizzard liked it so much that they built it in the default UI so people could level up easier and faster without downloading an addon. However you can turn it off if you don't want any help, but its on by default. I am sure they will let you turn it off in FFXIV, if you want to play without it. However in turning it off you will most likely progress slower then anyone else who is using it.

[Nayto]

Yeah, not calling people stupid or anything.

Whatever dude.

At this point I should be taking a break from the forums indeed, because the more I read posts from and talk with anti-progressive holier-than-thous, the more I sink into an alcoholic depression.

That's internet for you. Take too much public opinion and your going to hang yourself.