Marriage feedback [inofficial Poll]

[Zantetsuken]

In my experience there are two kinds of people arguing for SSM:

1) People who are personally invested in it. They are gay, or have friends who are, and they believe that this makes gay relationships officially 'accepted', or 'validated'. Their position is emotional and they won't be convinced by any arguments.. ever. - they just FEEL strongly about this and are the most vocal. These people will often view the opposition as homophobes, bigots, haters, despots, etc.

2) People who are caught up into the latest cause de celebre (often passively). These people want SSM because the believe it to be popular or because they don't want to be treated as a wet-blanket, or ridiculed, or excluded from anything. These people put out very weak arguments for SSM and typically just say: "Why can't we all get along" or "If someone wants to do 'X', who are we to say they can't?". These people will frequently modify or change their position solely depending on what their friends, media, or other perceived popular sources are saying. (These types would be equally opposed to SSM if you asked them a mere 10 years ago)

Reading through the posts, its pretty easy to sort them into these two categories. And it's why arguing over it is largely useless.



I trust SE to do what's in their own best interest, and from my vantage point, implementing SSM is much more of a sticky issue than just staying out of it. In fact, I've said implementing ANY marriage in FFXIV is a silly/stupid idea.

[Vilhem]

I will be captain subligar in 2.0... XD you seem pretty cool so I'm sad we never got to play together

Capt just wants SSM so he can have a legit excuse to stalk me like he did before the servers went offline <.<

[Laiferr]

Zantetsuken, I think there is a third category of people who want to marry their partners in-game but don't play their actual gender. There have been several replies to this effect. It's a smaller group, but, it's becoming increasingly common to see couples play MMO's and to see men playing female avatars and vice versa

(Aside, It may be worth pointing out that in one of Square Enix's own videos, they shown a male hume being played by a woman (at least... it really sounds like a woman!) and a lalafell female being played by a man. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=n-vjy97RuoA )

[RoxyLalonde]

Capt just wants SSM so he can have a legit excuse to stalk me like he did before the servers went offline <.<

I never stalked you o_O and how would stalking you involve marriage... oh there's SSM therefore I will stalk vilhelm into marriage submission?
And @ Zan I really wish you would stop this... I've respected your opinion in the past but you are teetering on offensive... It makes me very sad to see this topic in general... I already had to deal with this in the elections (In florida there was a lot of terrible propaganda) ... now from FFXIV??

[Zantetsuken]

Zantetsuken, I think there is a third category of people who want to marry their partners in-game but don't play their actual gender. There have been several replies to this effect. It's a smaller group, but, it's becoming increasingly common to see couples play MMO's and to see men playing female avatars and vice versa

I agree with that. About half of my RL friends that play are playing opposite gender characters.

IF they called it 'soul pairing' or something of the sort in-game, I don't think many people would have an issue with it.

It's the term 'Marriage' which takes the issue out of the game and propels SE headfirst into RL politics and culture.

But as you'll see, many advocates here won't settle for something like 'Soul Pairing', because they want SMM by name in as many places as possible to use as leverage in the larger RL social discussion, in addition to having the in-game relationship of their choice.

[Vilhem]

I never stalked you o_O and how would stalking you involve marriage... oh there's SSM therefore I will stalk vilhelm into marriage submission?

You got it! And I'm jk about the stalking >.> Didn't get to say bye and stuff before servers went offline

[Zantetsuken]

@ Zan I really wish you would stop this... I've respected your opinion in the past but you are teetering on offensive... It makes me very sad to see this topic in general...

How have I been offensive?

It certainly wasn't my intention.

[Arcell]

I agree with that. About half of my RL friends that play are playing opposite gender characters.

IF they called it 'soul pairing' or something of the sort in-game, I don't think many people would have an issue with it.

It's the term 'Marriage' which takes the issue out of the game and propels SE headfirst into RL politics and culture.

But as you'll see, many advocates here won't settle for something like 'Soul Pairing', because they want SMM by name in as many places ass possible to use as leverage in the larger RL social discussion, in addition to having the in-game relationship of their choice.

If the issue is solely with the use of the term "Marriage" and not using it will allow them to more easily remove the gender restriction, I'm all for it. I really don't care what they call it, as long as there's equal access to all couples playing the game.

I fall into your first category, I have friends who are gay who I'm sure would love to have the option to use all of the features in the game regardless of their gender or the gender of their partner. The restriction doesn't impact me negatively in any way but I still think they need to remove it.

[Keisuna]

In my experience there are two kinds of people arguing for SSM:

1) People who are personally invested in it. They are gay, or have friends who are, and they believe that this makes gay relationships officially 'accepted', or 'validated'. Their position is emotional and they won't be convinced by any arguments.. ever. - they just FEEL strongly about this and are the most vocal. These people will often view the opposition as homophobes, bigots, haters, despots, etc.

2) People who are caught up into the latest cause de celebre (often passively). These people want SSM because the believe it to be popular or because they don't want to be treated as a wet-blanket, or ridiculed, or excluded from anything. These people put out very weak arguments for SSM and typically just say: "Why can't we all get along" or "If someone wants to do 'X', who are we to say they can't?". These people will frequently modify or change their position solely depending on what their friends, media, or other perceived popular sources are saying. (These types would be equally opposed to SSM if you asked them a mere 10 years ago)

Reading through the posts, its pretty easy to sort them into these two categories. And it's why arguing over it is largely useless.



I trust SE to do what's in their own best interest, and from my vantage point, implementing SSM is much more of a sticky issue than just staying out of it. In fact, I've said implementing ANY marriage in FFXIV is a silly/stupid idea.

Generally speaking, I find anyone who is opposed to marriage equality tend to base their arguments on either wild speculation that isn't backed up by anything, unscientific studies on the subject, or the notion that their personal religious tenets should be enforced by law.

Though if they do cite credible studies, they'll often misrepresent the findings, which they tend to get away with normally when they only have to fear the authors of the studies calling them out, but when it's tested in the court of law like it was in Perry v Brown (previously Perry v Schwarzenegger), the claims do not hold.

[Zantetsuken]

Generally speaking, I find anyone who is opposed to marriage equality tend to base their arguments on either wild speculation that isn't backed up by anything, unscientific studies on the subject, or the notion that their personal religious tenets should be enforced by law.

Though if they do cite credible studies, they'll often misrepresent the findings, which they tend to get away with normally when they only have to fear the authors of the studies calling them out, but when it's tested in the court of law like it was in Perry v Brown (previously Perry v Schwarzenegger), the claims do not hold.

What evidence would suffice in swaying your position? (Hypothetically)