ARR and Dungeons/Istances timers.

[Dragonheart]

it does for the reason I mentioned in my last post, which obviously you didn't read.

Nope, i've read it. And my answer is that.

If i'm able to clear the dungeon at the first time or i am super man or prolly that is too easy or bad designed.

And do you really think that rushing again the whole dungeon when the time ends, it's a real difficulty?
That's not difficult. It's simply a time sink.

No matters how many time you can try a boss without timer, if it really hard . You can't kill it after 2-3 tries.

Example? If you were not skilled enough for a WoW hardmode encounter, you could try it 12890123'01823'08124 times without victory. That was real difficulty, not time.

[Molly_Millions]

If i'm able to clear the dungeon at the first time or i am super man or prolly that is too easy or bad designed.

I'm extremely doubtful you've been able to beat every dungeon first try in this game.

I'm gonna call you out on this. Don't lie to try to prove a point.

[Dragonheart]

I'm extremely doubtful you've been able to beat every dungeon first try in this game.

I'm gonna call you out on this. Don't lie to try to prove a point.

Of course not lol. But please, i don't want to talk about the current game where
you had to fight against latency, input lag, and action lock before, and then against the monsters.

[Dragonheart]

Limiting the time makes for a different experience during an instance whether you can bring yourself to admit it or not. It is not merely a question of pure difficulty, but in time management during the course of the instance which adds a unique variable to gameplay. You are just flat out ignoring this and suggesting the time limit plays no actual role. Requiring speed runs for loot was negative function of time, but with that removed in ARR there is no problem having a general time limit for the instance. If they make this so-called real hard content, you'd probably just begrudge for making your items truly harder to obtain.

This is a reasonable answer at least! Well i can understand that you like that type of difficulty.

But answer me,

it's harder to kill a tank&spank boss that simply hits hard with a timer that when ends,
you'll need to rush again the whole dungeon to arrive it again.

Or a boss with multiple phases, debuff to exange with your pt member, things to avoid (more like Ifrit, but with new engine/server of course)?

Well i like the 2° type of difficult. Real hard encounters, no matters how time you try it, they should be always hard.

The time is just for who can't design an harder fight.

[Abriael]

Of course. Doesn't mean it has to involve no effort. Lack of challenge bores me. I thought the goal was to bring your A game to an instance....plenty of other areas where you can just have fun

'cos vidya gams arz srs bznss.

Off that high horse please. Time limits in dungeons are counterproductive to the concept of enjoying the content.

Skipping cutscenes, running away from monsters, stacking as many cookie cutter DDs as possible have absolutely nothing to do with effort or challenge.

As a matter of fact time limits limit radically what a developer can do in terms of boss fight complexity and challenge.

[Arcell]

To give the dungeon a bit more challenge. The first time you try a dungeon, you should not be able to finish in a single attempt. With the way things are set up currently (returning to the entrance when you wipe) you could just retry, retry, retry and finish the whole thing without ever leaving and having to restart if the timers were removed.

Then implement a party wipe exit system. If your entire party wipes then you have to try the dungeon again. Still challenging and people can take all the time they want.

[Firon]

Because this community fought against open world dungeons. Instance dungeons needs some form of restriction on it or being instanced serves little purpose, you can have 'unlimited instancing' but you also waste resources going that route and a timer is usually a form of allocating your playerbase on those instances.

Usually you do:

-Open world dungeons
-Numerous paths for exploration
-Chests littered around (like any good FF or RPG.)
-Instanced Boss arena.

No problems except people who like having things all to themselves.

You can make multi ways thru a dungeon if its instance. Walking into CC from Thanalan is no different than walking in the final dungeon in a onfline game they both require you to zone in.

[syntaxlies]

'cos vidya gams arz srs bznss.

Off that high horse please. Time limits in dungeons are counterproductive to the idea of enjoying the content.

Skipping cutscenes, running away from monsters, stacking as many black cookie cutter damagers as possible have absolutely nothing to do with effort or challenge.

you can remove time limits but most people will still try to clear content as fast as possible to re-enter and do again. Not sure how they are gonna handle re enter timers so ill reference 1.0. If i clear a dungeon in 15 mins with a 15 min re enter that's 2 runs an hour so its much higher chances of loot when you maximize time. If they put long re-enter timers on things then maximizing time prob wouldn't happen so much unless there was enough content in game were you are going from a dungeon to b dungeon to c primal and trying to fit it all in a 3 hour time frame or w/e.

[Dragonheart]

Then implement a party wipe exit system. If your entire party wipes then you have to try the dungeon again. Still challenging and people can take all the time they want.

Sorry if i have to cit WoW always as example.

In WoW: Right Click > Reset all instance. Here you go!
You can rush again your dungeon if you like to kill trash (or skip in the XIV's case).

No thanks i prefer to try over and over the boss that it's supposed to be harder,
than having pressures by looking at the timer.

[Abriael]

you can remove time limits but most people will still try to clear content as fast as possible to re-enter and do again. Not sure how they are gonna handle re enter timers so ill reference 1.0. If i clear a dungeon in 15 mins with a 15 min re enter that's 2 runs an hour so its much higher chances of loot when you maximize time. If they put long re-enter timers on things then maximizing time prob wouldn't happen so much unless there was enough content in game were you are going from a dungeon to b dungeon to c primal and trying to fit it all in a 3 hour time frame or w/e.

It's a matter of fact that a time limit encourages people to do whatever they can to spend as little time as possible doing anything else than the essential a lot more than the simple will to redo the content.

Watching cutscenes, fighting trash mobs, exploration, bringing a less than cookie cutter party setup all eat into the little room for error you have when you have a time limit. If you don't have a time limit, some may groan a little, but most will not mind too much if you wanna sit and watch a cutscene, or if you want to bring a class that isn't the veeery best at doing damage, or if your son needs his diaper changed.

Ultimately, every bit of my experience in MMORPGs shows me that time limit encourage people to be di*ks to those they play with, while there's a lot more friendly and relaxed atmosphere even between strangers in dungeons that don't have time limits. And that's the atmosphere a Final Fantasy MMORPG should have.