SE stop doing the "norm"

[Andrien]

another doom and gloom thread...?

look I'm pretty sure my grandparents had a wheel and stick toy back in the days, but now that is an out-dated toy, and something I don't want to be seen with, and I doubt I'll have fun with it in this modern day and age.

You understand what I'm trying to say here?

[Gramul]

You understand what I'm trying to say here?

yes.

[strallaalaa]

another doom and gloom thread...?

look I'm pretty sure my grandparents had a wheel and stick toy back in the days, but now that is an out-dated toy, and something I don't want to be seen with, or have fun with today.

You understand what I'm trying to say here?

it has nothing to do with the wheel and stick, it's how long you can play with the toy no matter what the toy is. we don't want a mmo that we toss aside 5mins after we get it out of the package like 99% of the toys and games and even mmo's that come out these days. we get it they probably want to push out a new mmo much faster these days from the time there last one came out. but that don't make it a better product, it proves it to be a lesser quality.

[Andrien]

it has nothing to do with the wheel and stick, it's how long you can play with the toy no matter what the toy is. we don't want a mmo that we toss aside 5mins after we get it out of the package like 99% of the toys and games and even mmo's that come out these days. we get it they probably want to push out a new mmo much faster these days from the time there last one came out. but that don't make it a better product, it proves it to be a lesser quality.

you probably still play with the wheel and stick..

I understand you're assuming FFXIV will turn out like that if they borrow what works in other mmorpgs, and improve on it. I don't have much to say on that matter, but for me I'll reserve my criticism until the flood hits.

[Gramul]

you probably still play with the wheel and stick..

And why is that bad?
If it's fun, good. The only issue is if you get jealous with what's new. Thinking it's somehow a more valid fun.

Hell. I have fun watching movies from 100 years ago. Do the innovations made in the last century make my entertainment less valid? Is The Artist a terrible film because it's in black and white in an age of color? Is Casablanca made worse from its thousands of parodies? Is it bad that I have fun playing early NES games that don't have a simple built in mapping system?
Because if it is, I'm a terrible person.

[Andrien]

And why is that bad?
If it's fun, good. The only issue is if you get jealous with what's new. Thinking it's somehow a more valid fun.

Hell. I have fun watching movies from 100 years ago. Do the innovations made in the last century make my entertainment less valid? Is The Artist a terrible film because it's in black and white in an age of color? Is Casablanca made worse from its thousands of parodies? Is it bad that I have fun playing early NES games that don't have a simple built in mapping system?
Because if it is, I'm a terrible person.

Okay first things first, you have a lot of questions. Secondly I was not replaying to you. Thirdly that list of classic entertainments is not relevant because each one was limited to the technology of the time. I hope you're following with me here. Overtime I'm sure you've noticed that technology improves, new ideas come to life, and so did the entertainment industry. Hopefully it didn't improve to fast for you.

Lastly, I never said wheel and stick toy was bad. All I said was it was out-dated, and just like all out-dated things they get replaced with something better.

[Gramul]

Okay first things first, you have a lot of questions. Secondly I was not replaying to you. (As if that would stop me.) Thirdly that list of classic entertainments is not relevant because each one was limited to the technology of the time. I hope you're following with me here. Overtime I'm sure you've noticed that technology improves, new ideas come to life, and so did the entertainment industry. Hopefully it didn't improve to fast for you.

Lastly, I never said wheel and stick toy was bad. All I said was it was out-dated, and just like all out-dated things they get replaced with something better.

The Artist was made in 2011. Black and white. Silent film.

You guys get so caught up in the new, making excuses to how they're better when most of the time it's just a new piece of technology or a passing trend that has no actual true baring on quality. Things like higher fidelity or clearer picture? Yeah. That's a pretty blatant improvement. Things like matching a game structure to be like every other in its 'genre' at the time. That's more of a grey area. Plenty of pros and cons. No clear forward path. Just mindlessly following market trends in hopes that all the references will keep people interested in something that has had to be pulled to the mediocre stock to be considered an improvement.

[Jynx]

and just like all out-dated things they get replaced with something better.

Don't know where to start with this statement. Let's just suffice to say that not everthing becomes "Outdated" just because it's old. Your assuming that just because older MMO's such as XI, Ultima Online, Everquest are old that newer things are "Better"

Perhaps you enjoy newer MMO's, but it's arguable wether they are "Better" or not. No recent MMO has proven that it can last as long as the older legacy games. WoW itself is getting on years and could be considered a old outdated game, yet everyone and their dog feels that replicating it is the way to go.

the "Norm" of MMO's is far from being new, it's fairly old it's just that MMO's in general have failed to evolve beyond it these days making it seem like it's something new when it's not. Once a new MMO manages to break the mold and hold a large subscriber base for a few years then you can say something new has come to market.

As it stands most recent MMOs can't get past wanting to be WoW, not like we can blame them for trying to take the easy way out but we have seen it fail time and time again. WoW was lightning in a bottle it's not something we will see replicated, hell I doubt Blizzard themselves will be able to top it, they haven't been able to do it for the last few years in expansions I doubt a new MMO (Titan) will change that.

New does not always mean better, Old does not always mean obsolete.

Hardware? Sure you can argue that, but something subjective like a gaming experience? Hell look at how well "Retro" style games sell, or how well a re-release of a older game (With no improvments mind you) can still sell these days.

Fun is subjective, and it has no shelf date.

[Rokien]

Don't know where to start with this statement. Let's just suffice to say that not everthing becomes "Outdated" just because it's old. Your assuming that just because older MMO's such as XI, Ultima Online, Everquest are old that newer things are "Better"

Perhaps you enjoy newer MMO's, but it's arguable wether they are "Better" or not. No recent MMO has proven that it can last as long as the older legacy games. WoW itself is getting on years and could be considered a old outdated game, yet everyone and their dog feels that replicating it is the way to go.

the "Norm" of MMO's is far from being new, it's fairly old it's just that MMO's in general have failed to evolve beyond it these days making it seem like it's something new when it's not. Once a new MMO manages to break the mold and hold a large subscriber base for a few years then you can say something new has come to market.

As it stands most recent MMOs can't get past wanting to be WoW, not like we can blame them for trying to take the easy way out but we have seen it fail time and time again. WoW was lightning in a bottle it's not something we will see replicated, hell I doubt Blizzard themselves will be able to top it, they haven't been able to do it for the last few years in expansions I doubt a new MMO (Titan) will change that.

New does not always mean better, Old does not always mean obsolete.

Hardware? Sure you can argue that, but something subjective like a gaming experience? Hell look at how well "Retro" style games sell, or how well a re-release of a older game (With no improvments mind you) can still sell these days.

Fun is subjective, and it has no shelf date.

Very well said jyxn, that's why I don't get all these FFXI players are saying "BLAH FFXI WAS GOOD FOR ITS TIME" Yet it has more subscribers than half the mmos out there.