When is PLD Getting Fixed So It Can Be a VIABLE Tank?

[Alerith]

LOL, /facepalm,

well , at least yall are using pld now, still... /facepalm (wish i still had fraps on my laptop)

Will say this tho, coincounter is a joke, glad I finally went out and did the damn thing, dont understand what the big deal is, even without running from 100 tonze what was the big deal? enless you stacked hp materia or somthing retarded like that, DH's orger is more challanging...

We're having a serious discussion here.

Shoo.

[Gukie]

This is what she says: Fix paladin
This is what my girlfriend says: You never listen to me!!!

This is what she really means: Marauder can tank better then paladin; it's not fair...
This is what my girlfriend really means: I don't want to listen to what you are saying; now you listen to me!!!


This is how you fix the problem; DPS needs to learn how to not zerg it from the start, that's how paladin are suppose to tank. Paladin survivability is higher then warrior- paladin can take better hits then warrior and recover more hp then paladin. Warrior are Damage dealers + Tanking machines- they aren't the best at taking hits and aren't the best at doing damage. Although warrior's are actually the job that suppose to take most hate.
Paladin's are just suppose to be able to take hit and recover hp.

This is how se want's warrior to play, stand next to blackmage and collusion them while in battle, share the hate won't let the paladin lose hate.
This is how she wants to play ---> Paladin = Current Warrior.
Then this would make no sense to have a tank

[Daniel_Fury]

LOL, /facepalm,

well , at least yall are using pld now, still... /facepalm (wish i still had fraps on my laptop)

Will say this tho, coincounter is a joke, glad I finally went out and did the damn thing, dont understand what the big deal is, even without running from 100 tonze what was the big deal? enless you stacked hp materia or somthing retarded like that, DH's orger is more challanging...

[Crysten]

This is how you fix the problem; DPS needs to learn how to not zerg it from the start, that's how paladin are suppose to tank.

If your tank isn't pants on head retarded this shouldn't even be an issue.

[Daniel_Fury]

If your tank isn't pants on head retarded this shouldn't even be an issue.

I agree. I don't know what you guys think, but I believe Paladin generates more emnity than Warrior now, so zerging shouldn't be an issue.

Keeping hate of 4 flaring BLMs as of 1.22a is difficult on both classes and Cover is the ultimate life saver for that anyway.

[Duelle]

You seem to have it in your head that DPS is the only way to generate enmity, or at least, that's what your overall stance tells me. The common thought is that "PLD can't DPS, therefore it can't be a tank." The correct answer is "PLD can generate more than enough enmity through it's actions that DDs don't have to hold back and have enough survivability in a lot of situations to allow an extra DPS over a second WHM."

It's more along the lines of "tanks generate threat/aggro/hate through DPS. Abilities supplement that unless the design focuses on ability spam." Between cooldowns and how TP works, PLD abilities lean more to the former than the latter. That's why PLDs in XI had to eventually rely on cure cheat macros to generate aggro, as the design pointed in one direction but gameplay took the job down another. It is also why emphasis by players was in DPS gear with stats like accuracy and +attack (up until -PDT was thrown around like candy, anyways).

And I am staunchly against the whole "let's not invite another healer because we have a PLD in group". Firstly because that will bork encounter design and balance down the road, and make it more difficult on the developer's end when they have to design damage output, mechanics and abilities on multiple party set ups that play very differently. Secondly, it hints groups will start expecting the PLD to pick up the slack, and as I've been mentioning here for a while, if I'm on PLD I'm there to tank, not to do part of the healer's job.

They're two distinct tanking styles right now. A WAR's tanking style is based more around generating enmity through it's own (and with Collusion, other's) damage at the cost of less defensive power. A PLD has a much higher enmity ceiling and more survivability post 1.22a but at the cost of less overall DPS from itself.

This is dangerously close to niche tanking. You already know how I feel about that, so I'll not repeat myself.

[ReviiLagoon]

I believe the current issue lies more within the current content design. PLD can tank most things just fine, but when the content is based around speed running / zerging then warriors tend to have the upper hand because they can do dps, and they can do aoe dps. I'm not saying fighting multiple mobs at once isn't a good design decision, but when all the content is designed around large hordes of enemies which are ran past half the time then the pld can't really shine.

If SE were to get their head out of their asses and start making content which wasn't stupid and boring, (Seriously? Running through a dungeon killing only a select few mobs is terrible content design) then maybe the community would find more uses for pld's.

[Duelle]

I believe the current issue lies more within the current content design. PLD can tank most things just fine, but when the content is based around speed running / zerging then warriors tend to have the upper hand because they can do dps, and they can do aoe dps. I'm not saying fighting multiple mobs at once isn't a good design decision, but when all the content is designed around large hordes of enemies which are ran past half the time then the pld can't really shine.

If SE were to get their head out of their asses and start making content which wasn't stupid and boring, (Seriously? Running through a dungeon killing only a select few mobs is terrible content design) then maybe the community would find more uses for pld's.

That only solves part of the problem. Knowing the FFXI effect that trickles into this game, what would then happen is people would still use WAR because with WAR those dungeon runs are still being done faster than with PLD. This would be the case so long as there's a tangible reward for speeding through the content, causing this trend to be encouraged by the content.

Of course, removing tangible rewards for speeding through content wouldn't really solve anything on its own, because the trend then becomes entirely player-driven for the sake of efficiency. This is why changes to the jobs themselves would be in order to destroy the trend once and for all.

[Velhart]

The problem isn't how we can fix Paladin. Because on a technical scale, the job is perfectly fine and can tank just fine.

Here is the problem however. Why would you pick a PLD when a WAR can do double the amount for half the effort? The way content is right now, WAR is the best, it is hard to argue against. PLD may be viable, but it isn't better than WAR right now in dungeons.

The problem isn't PLD itself, it is properly balancing it with WAR so both are wanted in dungeons. Not one more than the other. I just hope in 2.0, the new server structure caters more to skilled/geared players than stacking the safe jobs. Make it so you can't just stack BLM's. Make it so a BLM setup is doable, but harder than a normal setup, that kind of thing.

[Alerith]

Why would you pick a PLD when a WAR can do double the amount for half the effort?

Gonna have to stop you right here. How in Altana's name do you get the idea that WAR does double the damage? From what I've heard, some people's PLDs even outdamage WARs on Chimera....