When is PLD Getting Fixed So It Can Be a VIABLE Tank?

[YuriSan]

LOL!!

It's just hopeless.

I wish i also had my fraps still......................

Only way for peeps to just stfu already about WAR tanking.

Trying to convince a linkshell's "main" tank who keeps hearing how awesome his tanking is
by his (tank ignorant) friends that his tanking aint so good is like
trying to bring down the Hulk with your bare fists.

Guys please keep posting ur tanking roation, it's the only way to actually get to the root of the problem if you find one while tanking on PLD...

[Alerith]

The answer may be something simple that's been going on for a long time.

Back when I was but a lowly level 12 Warrior in Valkurm Dunes, I was just then learning how to effectively tank. My thought was, if it's looking at me, great. If it runs to an ally, then I provoke.

I had no concept of accumulating enmity to KEEP it's attention on me. Eventually, I grew out of the bad habits and started making with the good.

We could see a similar issue here where people don't maintain their enmity, and these are the ones crying against PLD. After the initial rotation, people get complacent or lazy and fail to maintain their hate, allowing it to be ripped away. Hell, even I've lost hate on something as simple as Ifrit because of complacency.

[Momita]

I love PLD now, yeah always less damage of WAR, sure but i'll use always from patch! (except for Ant in CC because my soft-event pt don't do dps for kill Guard then PLD -> WAR for tanking ^^ )
but for the other PLD is better (also for speed run)

In Dungeons not the tank make the difference in SR (speed run) or SR (slow run XD)... then i use PLD because is funnier than the WAR (tank)


An Life's Example ^^
Yesterday:
2 Runs of Cutter's Cry (soft party)
First: Chimera with me WAR tank -> nothing hate problem ; damage .... ..... problem for the healer: much.
Second: Chimera with me PLD tank -> nothing hate problem ; damage .... .... problem for the healer? NOTHING
in a moment the 2 whm died for Voice of Dragon... fortunately our brd still alive and raise up one of 2... in this time Chimera don't hit me for much... Divine Veil -> Stoneskin -> Holy Succor save me in this situation.... with a WAR tank i don't think i should survive (but never say it)

anyway... i play with pld because it's funny!

Yeah maybe can fix PLD (or nerf WAR tanking ability... i hope no my war dd ability D: ) but now pld don't have problem, now need to know, who make more hate? PLD or WAR... need test (i think PLD but the high damage of the WAR make him a good enemy)

[YuriSan]

Last post for me in here peeps...


Rotation that wont fail.

Step 1: Sentinel
Step 2: Provoke
Step 3: Rapmart
Step 4: Flash
Step 5: Aegis
Step 6: Wardrum
Step 7: Phalanx
Step 8: Spirits Within
Step 9: Maddening Potion
Step 10: Flat Blade combo
Step 11: Gorging Blade combo
Step 12: Divine Veil
Step 13: Outmaneuver
Step 14: Sentinel
Step 15: Provoke
Step 16: Flash
Step 17: Flat Blade Combo
And then rotate Aegis rotation, Flat Blade/Gorging Blade combos,
Run through mob to start Rage of Halone combo.

Tip 1: Eat tanking or ACC food.

Tip 2: Listen to this while tanking -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkjK82f7zIg (lol)

Gear:

If you have full HDL set
you don't need to use slots (ring, earrings, bracelets, shield) for more ENM.
use the slots for more MND, HP or STR.
If not use all ENM gear possible.

Shield:
If you have full HDL set don't use Thormoen's or any high block rate shield. Blocking does not
make u a better tank, Healers will spam overcure u anyways. Blocking and taking less damage
isn't really a big deal.
Use shields with STR/MND/ACC/ATK or somethin' like Canopus Shield (+2 STR),
Vintage Kite shield +1 (+5 MND) or even Ul'dahn Scutum (+4 VIT)...
If not use Thormoen's.

That's all..
It is all in your skills to be a good tank on PLD.
Stop bitchin' about PLD not being a good tank if u havent given it the time needed
to actually get good at it.
If you don't really know what u talking about stop talking, you missinform people that might
actually be interrested in being a PLD tank.

THAT IS ALL FOLKS!

[Daniel_Fury]

Last post for me in here peeps...


Rotation that wont fail.

Step 1: Sentinel
Step 2: Provoke
Step 3: Rapmart
Step 4: Flash
Step 5: Aegis
Step 6: Wardrum
Step 7: Phalanx
Step 8: Spirits Within
Step 9: Maddening Potion
Step 10: Flat Blade combo
Step 11: Gorging Blade combo
Step 12: Divine Veil
Step 13: Outmaneuver
Step 14: Sentinel
Step 15: Provoke
Step 16: Flash
Step 17: Flat Blade Combo
And then rotate Aegis rotation, Flat Blade/Gorging Blade combos,
Run through mob to start Rage of Halone combo.

Tip 1: Eat tanking or ACC food.

Tip 2: Listen to this while tanking -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkjK82f7zIg (lol)

Gear:

If you have full HDL set
you don't need to use slots (ring, earrings, bracelets, shield) for more ENM.
use the slots for more MND, HP or STR.
If not use all ENM gear possible.

Shield:
If you have full HDL set don't use Thormoen's or any high block rate shield. Blocking does not
make u a better tank, Healers will spam overcure u anyways. Blocking and taking less damage
isn't really a big deal.
Use shields with STR/MND/ACC/ATK or somethin' like Canopus Shield (+2 STR),
Vintage Kite shield +1 (+5 MND) or even Ul'dahn Scutum (+4 VIT)...
If not use Thormoen's.

That's all..
It is all in your skills to be a good tank on PLD.
Stop bitchin' about PLD not being a good tank if u havent given it the time needed
to actually get good at it.
If you don't really know what u talking about stop talking, you missinform people that might
actually be interrested in being a PLD tank.

THAT IS ALL FOLKS!

I would generally agree with this but it depends.

First of all, I would use spirits alot earlier.

Secondly, Flat blade combo is practically useless on Ifrit and Chimera, so I wont even use it there.

I also save sentinel for my spirits and goring combo. That's about it

[Eagleheart]

Last post for me in here peeps...


Rotation that wont fail.

Step 1: Sentinel
Step 2: Provoke
Step 3: Rapmart
Step 4: Flash
Step 5: Aegis
Step 6: Wardrum
Step 7: Phalanx
Step 8: Spirits Within
Step 9: Maddening Potion
Step 10: Flat Blade combo
Step 11: Gorging Blade combo
Step 12: Divine Veil
Step 13: Outmaneuver
Step 14: Sentinel
Step 15: Provoke
Step 16: Flash
Step 17: Flat Blade Combo
And then rotate Aegis rotation, Flat Blade/Gorging Blade combos,
Run through mob to start Rage of Halone combo.

Tip 1: Eat tanking or ACC food.

Tip 2: Listen to this while tanking -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkjK82f7zIg (lol)

Gear:

If you have full HDL set
you don't need to use slots (ring, earrings, bracelets, shield) for more ENM.
use the slots for more MND, HP or STR.
If not use all ENM gear possible.

Shield:
If you have full HDL set don't use Thormoen's or any high block rate shield. Blocking does not
make u a better tank, Healers will spam overcure u anyways. Blocking and taking less damage
isn't really a big deal.
Use shields with STR/MND/ACC/ATK or somethin' like Canopus Shield (+2 STR),
Vintage Kite shield +1 (+5 MND) or even Ul'dahn Scutum (+4 VIT)...
If not use Thormoen's.

That's all..
It is all in your skills to be a good tank on PLD.
Stop bitchin' about PLD not being a good tank if u havent given it the time needed
to actually get good at it.
If you don't really know what u talking about stop talking, you missinform people that might
actually be interrested in being a PLD tank.

THAT IS ALL FOLKS!

Quick reply.

(A. Rotation

Sentinel doesn't increase enmity of actions, only damage, at this time. This is, or should be, common knowledge. That you can write a post so condescending while not knowing the actual nature of the abilities you are using is both annoying and amusing. (>.> ) You ought to use Sentinel closer to your combos.

(B. Food

No, really? Eat accuracy food or defense food. Goodness, that's a heck of a tip. Before now, we were all using magic attack bonus. I'm glad you were around to shed some light on matters.

Personally, accuracy food is always best in my opinion. <.< Missing Flat Blade sucks. A lot.

(C. Use gear relevant to your job.

Holy hot damn. I never would have guessed. Using gear that improves your primary mods for autoattack/weaponskills, or increase your maximum HP as a tank?

The deuce. All this time, the piety rings were doing nothing for me. I am astonished.

Shields are a debatable point. (o.O ) Paladin is advertised as being primarily used to reduce damage taken, and make the party capable of utilizing less healing, and stacking on heavier DDs. While I do not actually disagree with your choices, your advice to "ignore better block capability" seems to be at odds with Paladin's primary feature as a tank, that is, taking less damage. Balancing between offensive and defensive capacity is indeed a delicate art.

It is all in your skills to be a good tank on PLD.
Stop bitchin' about PLD not being a good tank if u havent given it the time needed
to actually get good at it.
If you don't really know what u talking about stop talking, you missinform people that might
actually be interrested in being a PLD tank.

The assumption that no one's giving time towards making their Paladin primo quality except the esteemed Yuri San is hilarious. Further, your lack of understanding on how Sentinel actually works at present (also noted in another Paladin thread) in tandem with your comment about "not knowing what u talking about" would seem to be a good reason for you to shut your yap.

[Skies]

Shields are a debatable point. (o.O ) Paladin is advertised as being primarily used to reduce damage taken, and make the party capable of utilizing less healing, and stacking on heavier DDs. While I do not actually disagree with your choices, your advice to "ignore better block capability" seems to be at odds with Paladin's primary feature as a tank, that is, taking less damage. Balancing between offensive and defensive capacity is indeed a delicate art.

Actually, I think he meant "With as many force-block and enhance-block-rate skills as you got, focus on shields which reduce more damage instead of shields that make you block more often".
That said, given the latest upgrade in the block rate algorithm, which seems to make each 5 Block Rate giving 1% and each 10 Dex giving 1% (plus the dLVL modifier, that should be -26% on a primal), you can get a pretty damn decent block rate on most if not all things you'll fight.

(source for data on block rate: Here)

[Eagleheart]

Actually, I think he meant "With as many force-block and enhance-block-rate skills as you got, focus on shields which reduce more damage instead of shields that make you block more often".
That said, given the latest upgrade in the block rate algorithm, which seems to make each 5 Block Rate giving 1% and each 10 Dex giving 1% (plus the dLVL modifier, that should be -26% on a primal), you can get a pretty damn decent block rate on most if not all things you'll fight.

(source for data on block rate: Here)

Aye, I was reading some interesting data on that earlier today in another thread on BG. My question was whether or not DEX gloves, rather than STR, would be a good idea for a Paladin.

I'm not sold on the idea, because, especially after the crit rate changes, DD are pretty darn quick to take hate if you're not at the top of your game. (o.- ) I can't see myself throwing my STR gloves out for DEX.

Canopus shield's 2 STR vs. 10 enmity, though, seems a poor exchange, even if you're sitting on a full HDL set. (o.O ) Vintage +1 has the same block rate, and 2 higher block than Thormoen's, but 5 MND may be worth trading off the 10 enmity. Not sure, leaning to no on that one, as well. >.> Ul'dah scutum is a bit different. Stuff is situational, but in most scenarios, my tanking philosophy is (A. keep hate, (B. mitigate damage.

Difference in taste there, perhaps. In any event, my problem is not only what he's saying (partly), but how he's saying it.

[YuriSan]

Quick reply.

(A. Rotation

Sentinel doesn't increase enmity of actions, only damage, at this time. This is, or should be, common knowledge. That you can write a post so condescending while not knowing the actual nature of the abilities you are using is both annoying and amusing. (>.> ) You ought to use Sentinel closer to your combos.

(B. Food

No, really? Eat accuracy food or defense food. Goodness, that's a heck of a tip. Before now, we were all using magic attack bonus. I'm glad you were around to shed some light on matters.

Personally, accuracy food is always best in my opinion. <.< Missing Flat Blade sucks. A lot.

(C. Use gear relevant to your job.

Holy hot damn. I never would have guessed. Using gear that improves your primary mods for autoattack/weaponskills, or increase your maximum HP as a tank?

The deuce. All this time, the piety rings were doing nothing for me. I am astonished.

Shields are a debatable point. (o.O ) Paladin is advertised as being primarily used to reduce damage taken, and make the party capable of utilizing less healing, and stacking on heavier DDs. While I do not actually disagree with your choices, your advice to "ignore better block capability" seems to be at odds with Paladin's primary feature as a tank, that is, taking less damage. Balancing between offensive and defensive capacity is indeed a delicate art.




The assumption that no one's giving time towards making their Paladin primo quality except the esteemed Yuri San is hilarious. Further, your lack of understanding on how Sentinel actually works at present (also noted in another Paladin thread) in tandem with your comment about "not knowing what u talking about" would seem to be a good reason for you to shut your yap.

HA! omg.
I laughed so hard at this post MILK came out of my nose... and i wasn't even drinking milk!

I already replied to the Sentinel issue dude. read a bit further up before making
a fool out of yourself next time you joke.

Also the reason i made that post was to give people that arent so EXPIRIENCED! with the job a "how to"
and a "what to wear" (Tell me you haven't seen people with full HDL wearing ENM choker, earrings and bracelets instead of using those slots for other stat boost) tip.
Peeps that already tank and actually know the stuff i mentioned aren't asked
to point out that what i posted is known and obvious to them, not everyone knows what gear to use and what food
is better to use. peeps are just starting to tank on PLD..

Ugh u made me reply to your dumbass. congrats!
I'm thinking you may be a troll but not sure.

[Eagleheart]

HA! omg.
I laughed so hard at this post MILK came out of my nose... and i wasn't even drinking milk!

I already replied to the Sentinel issue dude. read a bit further up before making
a fool out of yourself next time you joke.

Also the reason i made that post was to give people that arent so EXPIRIENCED! with the job a "how to"
and a "what to wear" (Tell me you haven't seen people with full HDL wearing ENM choker, earrings and bracelets instead of using those slots for other stat boost) tip.
Peeps that already tank and actually know the stuff i mentioned aren't asked
to point out that what i posted is known and obvious to them, not everyone knows what gear to use and what food
is better to use. peeps are just starting to tank on PLD..

Ugh u made me reply to your dumbass. congrats!
I'm thinking you may be a troll but not sure.

People are not just starting to tank on Paladin. ( >_>) This thread is full of people who've been doing naught but tanking on Paladin, all this time, despite its flaws.

As for you previously addressing Sentinel, d'ya mean this?

I also heard that thing about Sentinel being broken. i just do it atm cause i am used to doing so.
They will fix it i supose so i am staying used to using it like that. no reason to not use it at all.
Also you can always ALWAYS do rampart at the start of the battle. ALWAYS hit 8 players.
Not one fight u cant do that right after buffs.

The ability has not yet been fixed since introduction (which would be launch day?), yet you do it at the moment, and recommend it to other "new" tanks, because you're used to it?

Is this not about maximizing the effectiveness of the job? Using the ability that enhances enmity of damage you deal closer to your damage-dealing combos is the logical, and efficient use of the ability.

The truth is that you did not actually know about the flaw in Sentinel, but your bravado did not permit you to admit that you were in error, so you bluffed. Kinda transparent, especially after you stated

no reason to not use it at all.

You didn't put much thought to this, did you?

(>.> ) I would not even care, but for your rudeness.