RDM 7.4 changes and job identity

[Milkbeard]

People who are new to Red Mage or following "new-gen" takes are claiming the job is rigid. RDM is not locked to a 2-minute meta. We have the active choice to either Mana Rush or Align.

Choosing to rush depends entirely on your group's projected clear time. For example, with a clear time of 7:30, it is objectively better to use Manafication on cooldown, which desyncs it from the 2-minute cycle. Even in a "Triple Melee" reopener, the first combo isn’t even under Embolden. Please be careful with what you say when jumping into RDM discussions if your only perspective is how the job fits into a standardized meta. Remember: Embolden is for the group; your resources are for the encounter.

Please stop spreading misinformation or bashing the developers when RDM is arguably the best-designed caster in the game. If you want to complain, ask for our melee range to be restored rather than demanding a gutting of the kit.

You should take the time to understand the complexity you’re missing: learn the difference between mana rushing, standard alignment, and hybrid play during Ultimate phases. "2-minute meta" is just a buzzword for our class—it’s simply when your group needs embolden and that isn't strictly locked to 2 mins either. If you’re complaining about the 2-minute meta, you’re really just complaining about doing a double-melee combo. If you don't like that, you haven’t liked the job for five years and should have switched by now.



source the balance.

There is hardly an argument for the 2 min meta being an issue for RDM. I won't hear it to be honest.

[Solilunaris]

People who are new to Red Mage or following "new-gen" takes are claiming the job is rigid. RDM is not locked to a 2-minute meta. We have the active choice to either Mana Rush or Align.

Choosing to rush depends entirely on your group's projected clear time. For example, with a clear time of 7:30, it is objectively better to use Manafication on cooldown, which desyncs it from the 2-minute cycle. Even in a "Triple Melee" reopener, the first combo isn’t even under Embolden. Please be careful with what you say when jumping into RDM discussions if your only perspective is how the job fits into a standardized meta. Remember: Embolden is for the group; your resources are for the encounter.

Please stop spreading misinformation or bashing the developers when RDM is arguably the best-designed caster in the game. If you want to complain, ask for our melee range to be restored rather than demanding a gutting of the kit.

You should take the time to understand the complexity you’re missing: learn the difference between mana rushing, standard alignment, and hybrid play during Ultimate phases. "2-minute meta" is just a buzzword for our class—it’s simply when your group needs embolden and that isn't strictly locked to 2 mins either. If you’re complaining about the 2-minute meta, you’re really just complaining about doing a double-melee combo. If you don't like that, you haven’t liked the job for five years and should have switched by now.



source the balance.

There is hardly an argument for the 2 min meta being an issue for RDM. I won't hear it to be honest.

You are probably the biggest white knight I have seen for these changes.
All we are talking about is that the job identity of Red mage has taken a concerning hit. It’s a fact.
We are asking for a better, more fun to play fix or to restore the melee range as it was, nothing more.
SE has a concerning track record as for now ruining jobs accounting for bad combat design.
Hells PVP has better job identity in ALL jobs than PvE. It shows that it’s possibile to have more, they just pander to people that want every minor difficulty leveled down. It’s boring and lazy game design.
A melee-caster jack of all trades that has 4 melee combos executable from range is a joke. Full stop.

[TeresaFortell]

It's crazy how backwards the developers' priorities are when it comes to encounter vs job design.

They make a Savage fight where Red Mages can't get in range to do their melee combo during one of the 2 minute windows... and their response to that little dilemma isn't to simply adjust the raid mechanic like any sensible person would, but instead to remove the 2-minute melee combo from the job itself.

What are we doing here? Why are we removing core features of the jobs and taking away their identity across the entire game for the sake of uptime during a single raid mechanic in an individual fight? Fights should be designed around the jobs, not the other way around.

Taking this direction, I have a feeling they might just remove positionals from melees altogether, since there are some recent raids where positionals are ignored anyway.

[Raikai]

People who are new to Red Mage or following "new-gen" takes are claiming the job is rigid. RDM is not locked to a 2-minute meta. We have the active choice to either Mana Rush or Align.

You talk as if those are 2 vastly different gameplay methods in relation of the 2min meta. In practice, you're doing almost the same thing as always, just with slight different timeline placements.

You know what was different gameplay? The old Black Mage's alternative rotational lines, where you actually changed your rotation based on opportunity/planning.

[Azurarok]

Hells PVP has better job identity in ALL jobs than PvE. It shows that it’s possibile to have more, they just pander to people that want every minor difficulty leveled down. It’s boring and lazy game design.
A melee-caster jack of all trades that has 4 melee combos executable from range is a joke. Full stop.

Do we mean 6.1 pvp RDM or 7.1? Admittedly I hadn't touched PvP much at all in 7.x but I can't say I'm a fan of being turned into a Rose mage, whether it plays better or not.

[Connor]

As a (ex)Bard, its nice to see we’re not the only job in the game whose players will completely cannibalise its own design in some sad, misguided attempt to improve its dps output (let’s be real who actually cares about dps output if they’re all going to be practically 2D in design complexity / effort). Wonder how long it’ll be before they remove Dualcast because ‘it causes undue stress that there’s a minor variation in how this caster uses spells compared to the other two’. I mean Black Mage already has barely any cast times, right? Just make them all Summoner, that’ll be real fun.

So. now we have ‘Archer firing laser beams from the sky with their hands’ and ‘magic swordsman slicing enemies with a slashing weapon from 10 miles away’ (but it’s ok because it’s only 3 combos per 120s or whatever). What’s next, Monks punching the enemy at max range?

Makes you question why in the world they’d even use a sword if they’re going to attack from so far away, but eh, not like devs give a shit about lore and logic anymore lol.

[RaionKansen]

I’m honestly baffled with the RDM changes in 7.4. Now the class that was a cool melee-caster hybrid and felt right and lore accurate is just another braindead stationary class, a fix for a fight that is not even relevant anymore.

I have to agree, I was RDM for the fight in question and I hated all of it but the job shouldn't give because the fight design was atrocious. Instead the devs should playtest with all the jobs and ask "does this work?", that should have lead them to move that part of the fight to a one minute window instead of a two minute.

Both of you are bold-faced liars. You don't do any high end content. They didn't even specify any content in the patch notes.

[RaionKansen]

You are probably the biggest white knight I have seen for these changes.

You really shouldn't call people white knights just because they know what they're talking about. Again, you haven't even engaged with the high end content this expansion.

[Alice_Rivers]

Both of you are bold-faced liars. You don't do any high end content. They didn't even specify any content in the patch notes.

You did a terrible job of looking me up then.

[Milkbeard]

You are probably the biggest white knight I have seen for these changes.

*rolls eyes*

You really shouldn't call people white knights just because they know what they're talking about. Again, you haven't even engaged with the high end content this expansion.

Thank you for understanding. It’s best to just use the ignore function; calling out posters on their incoherence or lies is simply adding gasoline to the fire. They offer nothing useful, seeking only to name-call, rage-bait, and attack the Devs. It’s sad that the most frequent posters are often the same people who are at war with learning. Its' always the same personality, just copied on to another face.

If you try to discuss a specific mechanic, specific encounter, or specific content, their behavior is predictable: they name-call, deflect to PvP, or hallucinate lists of things red mage has lost. It’s a cookie-cutter excuse to apply terms like "class homogeneity" to Red Mage, when it has never applied to Red Mage. I mean at this point I've read them and know what they're about. They claim to play RDM "stationary" now, probably dropping DPS because they never learned to play it, then retreat to echo chambers for social reinforcement.

I don’t give extra credence to experienced players opinions just for the sake of it—I am one, and we all still make mistakes. However, if posters won't accept basic job knowledge during a discussion, they aren't worth anyone's time.

I check in every few months to show that people who actually play the game do not agree with this incoherence. If you want the range restored, great. If you want to discuss the kit, I’m game. But if you call the kit useless, I’ll gladly educate you. A range change doesn't mean the RDM kit or its unique playstyle is suddenly worth crapping on.

In regards to identity
Mobility: Objectively unique and satisfying. Acceleration is boss and the mobility sword combo is fun

Burst: Controlled and in the hands of the player, not on rails.

resource accumulating and spending: Zero jobs are like it; Reaper is the closest in resource spending, but still miles away.

RDM perfectly fulfills the lore of weaving White and Black mana into Red Magic. We have the best balance of swordplay and magic in the game. The job doesn’t need a gutting or a rework—just minor animation and range tweaks. RDM remains the gold standard for design.