Please do something about dps survavibility in OC

[BokoToloko]

The role that has always been the best for soloing stuff is being the best role to roleplay the lone wolf as? Say it ain't so.

And the instances where you end up actually soloing CEs are when you're still staying in a closed instance on when you're playing at times where most people with jobs would be sleeping (and you probably would end up with enough people). Literally nothing stops you from grouping with other players also fighting the CE and one healer in the group is more than enough, most of the time.

Also, weird that no one mentions RDM, a DPS who can actually sustain themselves and was massively used in Eureka purely because of that. (Bozja too, but that was because of Spirit of the Ordained)

[Stasya]

The role that has always been the best for soloing stuff is being the best role to roleplay the lone wolf as? Say it ain't so.

And the instances where you end up actually soloing CEs are when you're still staying in a closed instance on when you're playing at times where most people with jobs would be sleeping (and you probably would end up with enough people). Literally nothing stops you from grouping with other players also fighting the CE and one healer in the group is more than enough, most of the time.

Also, weird that no one mentions RDM, a DPS who can actually sustain themselves and was massively used in Eureka purely because of that. (Bozja too, but that was because of Spirit of the Ordained)

No one forcing you to defend bad game design too. There should be healing sustain for dps, ability for healer to become dps like in bozja and no forced grouping/forced use of phantom jobs.

[BokoToloko]

No one forcing you to defend bad game design too. There should be healing sustain for dps, ability for healer to become dps like in bozja and no forced grouping/forced use of phantom jobs.

SE isn't obligated to cater to your specific set of problems. Crazy how DPS sustainability is an issue half a year after the release of OC.

And you are already forcibily grouped with everyone you do a CE with, the only difference is you'll miss on any raidwide buffs or heals. But you still prefer to remain solo then... well, whatever floats your boat. But that's pretty much a you problem, then.

[YumieYumiki]

Okay congrats you are playing at a clear disadvantage

Please explain what the "clear disadvantage" is.

Should my opinion clearing Elden ring with a soup ladle affect how balance discussions of the game

Can you cool it with the false dichotomies and other absurd reductionist arguments? Its very difficult to talk with people trying so hard to be stupid.

You doing it isn’t changing that you are hamstringing yourself for literally zero benefit and that is bad game design

I'm not hamstringing myself by playing dps. Maybe you would be hamstringing yourself but thats a you problem.

[Kisshu]

Do you read the thread? We are not arguing that some fates cant be done without healing, we are arguing that it is a non problem because you can use a healing phantom job.

Just like tanks have to use a dps phantom job, etc.
Phantom job are meant to compensate the weaknesses of your main job, nothing more.

If there are fates you cant solo as dps, you have skill issues, simple as. Yours are so crippling that you deny that other people can possibly have different experiences than yours.

As for CEs, its group content anyway, but you can still do pretty well ungrouped as a dps with the right phantom job.

I first replied to the thread because someone literally said that dps have no access to sufficient tanking or healing capabilities which is an absurd claim when chemist exists.

I did so because I genuinely thought that person was having a bad OC experience because they overlooked that, but I came to realize that you people are deranged and literally foaming at the mouth over a perceived game design slight that is just not there.

Since I'm the person you initially replied to, I'll clear up some of your assumptions about me.

"I genuinely thought that person was having a bad OC experience" I don't have a bad experience with OC. While I do have criticism, it's not related to bad experience. You're welcome to look at my Lodestone page, I have the same amount of mastered phantom jobs as you, and also 100+ fates and 100+ CE cleared. Not something a person with bad experience of the content would have I would assume.

Then it seems you've focused on the first line I wrote. Sure, it was hyperbole, but it seems you've completely overlooked the part I wrote about survival in OC in the later text. I did write that some phantom jobs offer defensive or healing options, but that it's more restricted option compared to Eureka and Bozja.

You keep saying people should use chemist to stay alive. I agree that if you're leveling knowledge rank or chemist that's a good thing to make use of. But then what happens when you're at max knowledge and capped chemist. The only reward you get from fates and CEs are the silver. Each chemist potion costs 10kgil/40silver/40gold. So if you need to use chemist to heal once, that's half of the silver reward of a fate, or 20% from a CE. So you can quickly burn a lot of gil/silver/gold to stay alive, but then you're burning the reward you would get from the fate or CE. And what if a person wants to level something like cannoneer or thief, should they just be SoL since those jobs have no healing or survivability built in?

[YumieYumiki]

You keep saying people should use chemist to stay alive. I agree that if you're leveling knowledge rank or chemist that's a good thing to make use of. But then what happens when you're at max knowledge and capped chemist.

I also keep saying that in most situations you don't need to use chemist. Solo fates are the exception, not the rule, and not all fates have a lot of unavoidable damage either.

The only reward you get from fates and CEs are the silver.

And the chest respawns (huge source of gil)

Each chemist potion costs 10kgil/40silver/40gold. So if you need to use chemist to heal once, that's half of the silver reward of a fate, or 20% from a CE. So you can quickly burn a lot of gil/silver/gold to stay alive, but then you're burning the reward you would get from the fate or CE.

I rarely use more than one per fate, and that only if the fate have significant unavoidable damage (or the occasional mistake), and im doing it solo. I bought a big stack of potions once or twice just to dump my silver pieces and I could probably farm OC for a month without running out.

And what if a person wants to level something like cannoneer or thief, should they just be SoL since those jobs have no healing or survivability built in?

You level those during the 90% of the time where fates are zerged by dozen of people, or when someone is tanking it, or when you're doing CEs with a party.

[Valence]

SE isn't obligated to cater to your specific set of problems. Crazy how DPS sustainability is an issue half a year after the release of OC.

And you are already forcibily grouped with everyone you do a CE with, the only difference is you'll miss on any raidwide buffs or heals. But you still prefer to remain solo then... well, whatever floats your boat. But that's pretty much a you problem, then.

You're all speaking about different things. You're speaking about the feasibility of playing solo or making up for a lack of support players in your vicinity as a DPS, which is perfectly achievable... most of the time, if just by working around it, or swapping roles. That's fine.
Some other people are however speaking about the game design which doesn't take into account any of this and seems to strongly favor some roles (namely tanks) over anything else because said game design couldn't be arsed to provide the same flexibility than eureka/bozja did.

SE isn't obligated to cater to specific sets of problems, but by doing so, they're also harming the experience of many players when their design could certainly have been better to avoid said set of issues. And that's always a problem with how they design content, they barely give a thought for what happens once the content starts dying out.

[TaleraRistain]

I think people in the thread are also forgetting there are more phantom jobs being added in 7.45 so "just use chemist" means that dps won't have the same options to freely level those as a tank or healer would. And it's not just a solo thing. Any party that is lacking a healer will run into these problems for the dps.

[Supersnow845]

Please explain what the "clear disadvantage" is.



Can you cool it with the false dichotomies and other absurd reductionist arguments? Its very difficult to talk with people trying so hard to be stupid.



I'm not hamstringing myself by playing dps. Maybe you would be hamstringing yourself but thats a you problem.

The clear disadvantage is that you are playing a job with less survivability to not even do more damage because of the way phantom jobs work and be limited in exactly when you can use a non sustain job to level it.

Why use a squishy job when you can use a job that can tank 8 vuln stacks with ease and still as much damage as you WITH ZERO DOWNSIDES

Just because you can doesn’t mean it isn’t awful game design to have a role with that many upsides and literally zero downsides

[BokoToloko]

snip

The thread is about the former, not the latter. Also, tanks have been the prime soloing job since very early (and, let's be honest here, also in other MMO beyond FFXIV that abide by the trinity) because, at the end of the day, a dead DPS does no DPS and a tank surviving can eventually overtake them.

And, as much as I liked Lost Actions, reality is that the vast majority players will simply gravitate towards the path of least resistance and Bozja was far from the exception. The average player is far more pragmatic or lazy than most people here give them credit for.

Even if, like OP requested, they brought a usable regen potion out, support would still be the go to for most simply because the first would still be able handle way more punishment and the latter is most 1-1-1-1-1-1-1 ad eternum that makes it easier to spot mechanics.

SE isn't obligated to cater to specific sets of problems, but by doing so, they're also harming the experience of many players

Each ignored specific sets of problems affects a specific group of player. And it would be nice if they got solved. Problem is, there is not one. There are thousands over thousands of similarily important peet peeves. Who decides which should get more priority? And more importantly, why should SE redirect time they could use on addressing actual major issues, like the shambling inventory system, housing, social tab, overall combat design, among other things?

I would rather they prioritize the more pressing matters rather than cater to problems people just decide to bash their skulls against rather than climb over in the several ways possible they have. OP and the one above answering me could just group with a healer (they're not hard to find, really) or bring a healer friend and their problems would be over. I can't really go over how poorly the glamour system works, the housing scarcity or rigid customization system, avoiding the 2 minure meta with most classes,....