Please do something about dps survavibility in OC

[Yeonhee]

Because again DPS needing healers isn’t much of a relevant point when you can just play a tank and have literally zero downsides

I’m a healer I want to be useful, I also don’t blame DPS for feeling overly reliant on healers in a system that discourages experimentation on squishy jobs when tanks have zero downsides

Tanks being pretty OP isn't really a specific OC issue, it's the case pretty much everywhere. The issue is tanks themselves, not DPS needing a healer as they should.

Even tho I see your point and I'm sure SE will not adress the tanks OPiness issue anytime soon, I don't think making healers even more useless is really a good solution to the problem.

I can indeed state that its not RNG itself thats the problem, its the lack of feeling progression. They could have made the atmas drop at a much higher rate like 50%+ drop rates, but also demand you to collect 10 each. And it would feel better, because you see the progress.
A streak then of 3x not getting an atma is anoying, but the 4th time giving one is instant progression again.

The abysmal drop rate, even though you didnt need a lot is just anoying to face, you dont notice progression, and even if you then get one, its more of a 'finaly' feeling, then it is, 'good'. Even if you would need a static 50 fates in each area, it shows you a good expectation.

But the 2nd issue i saw: any atma beyond what you needed is just an atma to rub it in. You cant use it, and it makes it feel like you are making the odds for the next one worse (it isnt, but the odds of a chain of 2 is just 1% if the normal droprate is 10%). Everything in this grind just feels counter productive, even though the total requirement in time spent wasnt bad at all

That's pretty true. Atmas having higher drop rates but needing more of them would feel a lot better than doing 30 FATEs without any drops.

[Stasya]

I don't think making healers even more useless is really a good solution to the problem.

Again, the "do you play the game" crowd. Bozja has dps essences and damage abilities/buffs specifically for healer and the only complain i have is that -% healing too much for solo gameplay. Why OC can't have same?

There is 0 need to force everyone into tank healer dps group parties. Tanks are not issue, it's the design.

[YumieYumiki]

Another case "do you play the game?". There are some boss fates you can do solo on melee because bloodbath (but i found sam safer still) and other are impossible without healing - JUST BECAUSE OF AOE FROM BOSSES YOU CANT DODGE.

Do you read the thread? We are not arguing that some fates cant be done without healing, we are arguing that it is a non problem because you can use a healing phantom job.

Just like tanks have to use a dps phantom job, etc.
Phantom job are meant to compensate the weaknesses of your main job, nothing more.

If there are fates you cant solo as dps, you have skill issues, simple as. Yours are so crippling that you deny that other people can possibly have different experiences than yours.

As for CEs, its group content anyway, but you can still do pretty well ungrouped as a dps with the right phantom job.

I first replied to the thread because someone literally said that dps have no access to sufficient tanking or healing capabilities which is an absurd claim when chemist exists.

I did so because I genuinely thought that person was having a bad OC experience because they overlooked that, but I came to realize that you people are deranged and literally foaming at the mouth over a perceived game design slight that is just not there.

[Supersnow845]

Do you read the thread? We are not arguing that some fates cant be done without healing, we are arguing that it is a non problem because you can use a healing phantom job.

Just like tanks have to use a dps phantom job, etc.
Phantom job are meant to compensate the weaknesses of your main job, nothing more.

If there are fates you cant solo as dps, you have skill issues, simple as. Yours are so crippling that you deny that other people can possibly have different experiences than yours.

As for CEs, its group content anyway, but you can still do pretty well ungrouped as a dps with the right phantom job.

I first replied to the thread because someone literally said that dps have no access to sufficient tanking or healing capabilities which is an absurd claim when chemist exists.

I did so because I genuinely thought that person was having a bad OC experience because they overlooked that, but I came to realize that you people are deranged and literally foaming at the mouth over a perceived game design slight that is just not there.

If you are a DPS your options include

-the literal most boring phantom job they ever made which takes potions everyone had access to in Bozja and made it a “job”

If you are a support your options include

-literally every single phantom job you want to play

What absolutely fantastic design we have right there. There is a vast difference between what’s “possible” and what’s actively encouraged by the game to make your life easier and to make levelling phantom jobs faster.

Going “but muh chemist” doesn’t fix what’s wrong with this particular problem in OC

[Kisshu]

Do you read the thread? We are not arguing that some fates cant be done without healing, we are arguing that it is a non problem because you can use a healing phantom job.

Just like tanks have to use a dps phantom job, etc.
Phantom job are meant to compensate the weaknesses of your main job, nothing more.

If there are fates you cant solo as dps, you have skill issues, simple as. Yours are so crippling that you deny that other people can possibly have different experiences than yours.

As for CEs, its group content anyway, but you can still do pretty well ungrouped as a dps with the right phantom job.

I first replied to the thread because someone literally said that dps have no access to sufficient tanking or healing capabilities which is an absurd claim when chemist exists.

I did so because I genuinely thought that person was having a bad OC experience because they overlooked that, but I came to realize that you people are deranged and literally foaming at the mouth over a perceived game design slight that is just not there.

Since I'm the person you initially replied to, I'll clear up some of your assumptions about me.

"I genuinely thought that person was having a bad OC experience" I don't have a bad experience with OC. While I do have criticism, it's not related to bad experience. You're welcome to look at my Lodestone page, I have the same amount of mastered phantom jobs as you, and also 100+ fates and 100+ CE cleared. Not something a person with bad experience of the content would have I would assume.

Then it seems you've focused on the first line I wrote. Sure, it was hyperbole, but it seems you've completely overlooked the part I wrote about survival in OC in the later text. I did write that some phantom jobs offer defensive or healing options, but that it's more restricted option compared to Eureka and Bozja.

You keep saying people should use chemist to stay alive. I agree that if you're leveling knowledge rank or chemist that's a good thing to make use of. But then what happens when you're at max knowledge and capped chemist. The only reward you get from fates and CEs are the silver. Each chemist potion costs 10kgil/40silver/40gold. So if you need to use chemist to heal once, that's half of the silver reward of a fate, or 20% from a CE. So you can quickly burn a lot of gil/silver/gold to stay alive, but then you're burning the reward you would get from the fate or CE. And what if a person wants to level something like cannoneer or thief, should they just be SoL since those jobs have no healing or survivability built in?

[YumieYumiki]

If you are a DPS your options include

-the literal most boring phantom job they ever made which takes potions everyone had access to in Bozja and made it a “job”

If you are a support your options include

-literally every single phantom job you want to play

What absolutely fantastic design we have right there. There is a vast difference between what’s “possible” and what’s actively encouraged by the game to make your life easier and to make levelling phantom jobs faster.

And yet im managing to level up my phantom jobs just fine, despite playing mostly solo. (They are all boring, by the way, but at least some are useful)

[Supersnow845]

And yet im managing to level up my phantom jobs just fine, despite playing mostly solo. (They are all boring, by the way, but at least some are useful)

Okay congrats you are playing at a clear disadvantage

Should my opinion clearing Elden ring with a soup ladle affect how balance discussions of the game

You doing it isn’t changing that you are hamstringing yourself for literally zero benefit and that is bad game design

[BokoToloko]

The role that has always been the best for soloing stuff is being the best role to roleplay the lone wolf as? Say it ain't so.

And the instances where you end up actually soloing CEs are when you're still staying in a closed instance on when you're playing at times where most people with jobs would be sleeping (and you probably would end up with enough people). Literally nothing stops you from grouping with other players also fighting the CE and one healer in the group is more than enough, most of the time.

Also, weird that no one mentions RDM, a DPS who can actually sustain themselves and was massively used in Eureka purely because of that. (Bozja too, but that was because of Spirit of the Ordained)

[Stasya]

The role that has always been the best for soloing stuff is being the best role to roleplay the lone wolf as? Say it ain't so.

And the instances where you end up actually soloing CEs are when you're still staying in a closed instance on when you're playing at times where most people with jobs would be sleeping (and you probably would end up with enough people). Literally nothing stops you from grouping with other players also fighting the CE and one healer in the group is more than enough, most of the time.

Also, weird that no one mentions RDM, a DPS who can actually sustain themselves and was massively used in Eureka purely because of that. (Bozja too, but that was because of Spirit of the Ordained)

No one forcing you to defend bad game design too. There should be healing sustain for dps, ability for healer to become dps like in bozja and no forced grouping/forced use of phantom jobs.

[BokoToloko]

No one forcing you to defend bad game design too. There should be healing sustain for dps, ability for healer to become dps like in bozja and no forced grouping/forced use of phantom jobs.

SE isn't obligated to cater to your specific set of problems. Crazy how DPS sustainability is an issue half a year after the release of OC.

And you are already forcibily grouped with everyone you do a CE with, the only difference is you'll miss on any raidwide buffs or heals. But you still prefer to remain solo then... well, whatever floats your boat. But that's pretty much a you problem, then.