Thoughts on the Purify changes?

[Valence]

Most melee stuns aren’t on the same level as those from ranged jobs.
Typically, melee stuns act more like an anchor, holding the target in place so the melee player can start their rotation effectively.
In fact, most hard crowd control (CC) abilities are predominantly tied to ranged or caster jobs.

You're kidding me right? All melees with no exceptions can crowd control you through gap closers. Their hard stuns are on very short cooldowns, literally on demand, which isn't something most ranged hard stuns can say besides SMN. And let's not talk about the infamous triple Raiju stun either (even double is already nuts, enjoy losing 5k MP if you really need to get out of dodge immediately, if you even survive the purify delays).

You use hard CCs (stun/silence) the same whether you're melee or ranged, either to initiate a burst, or to prevent someone from retreating (after guard notably), and range is rarely a problem nor a consideration. If anything a melee will have less LoS issues to land theirs.

I doubt the 2,500 MP cost will be the final number.
I expect they’ll make adjustments to both the MP cost and duration in patch 7.3.5. Specifically, I think the MP cost for melee will be reduced to around 2,000, and the duration will be restored to 3 seconds.

Unacceptable as far as I'm concerned. This is still too steep.

The whole concept of tying purify to the MP/HP economy is rotten and shouldn't be explored further.

[Birdbrain]

Not a fan. I prefer using Purify preemptively- especially useful in Frontlines- and any lessened duration plus the MP cost is bad news.

[Divinemights]

You're kidding me right? All melees with no exceptions can crowd control you through gap closers. Their hard stuns are on very short cooldowns, literally on demand, which isn't something most ranged hard stuns can say besides SMN. And let's not talk about the infamous triple Raiju stun either (even double is already nuts, enjoy losing 5k MP if you really need to get out of dodge immediately, if you even survive the purify delays).

Just a reminder: I played about three full seasons of ranked Crystalline Conflict after the old Secure was removed.
I also played a lot of casual CC back during the Seize and Onsal Hakair days.
That said, I want to make it clear: I don’t like the current changes either.

I'm not going to dive too deeply into your choice of using Raiju to support your argument as that's your personal approach.
If you want to spend 5,000 MP just to Purify a 1-second Raiju stun, that's your decision.
Personally, I don’t think it’s a good trade.

My main argument is that this change hurts melee jobs more in PvP (considering both Crystalline Conflict and Frontline) because most melee crowd control tools are soft CC.
These abilities typically serve as anchors, helping to stop targets (especially ranged jobs) from constantly kiting or running away.

I’m not sure how many PvP jobs you’ve actually played, but I encourage you to try Samurai (I don't play it in PvP this expansion myself).
Let me know if you can reliably land Ogi Namikiri without using Mineuchi first.
Most melees rely on that soft CC just to get a chance at engaging properly.
It’s simply not on the same level as hard CC like Silence or other forms of CC that can't be cleansed by Purify.
These recent changes make melee jobs burn through MP much faster, which directly impacts their survivability

[Valence]

Just a reminder: I played about three full seasons of ranked Crystalline Conflict after the old Secure was removed.
I also played a lot of casual CC back during the Seize and Onsal Hakair days.
That said, I want to make it clear: I don’t like the current changes either.

I'm not going to dive too deeply into your choice of using Raiju to support your argument as that's your personal approach.
If you want to spend 5,000 MP just to Purify a 1-second Raiju stun, that's your decision.
Personally, I don’t think it’s a good trade.

My main argument is that this change hurts melee jobs more in PvP (considering both Crystalline Conflict and Frontline) because most melee crowd control tools are soft CC.
These abilities typically serve as anchors, helping to stop targets (especially ranged jobs) from constantly kiting or running away.

I’m not sure how many PvP jobs you’ve actually played, but I encourage you to try Samurai (I don't play it in PvP this expansion myself).
Let me know if you can reliably land Ogi Namikiri without using Mineuchi first.
Most melees rely on that soft CC just to get a chance at engaging properly.
It’s simply not on the same level as hard CC like Silence or other forms of CC that can't be cleansed by Purify.
These recent changes make melee jobs burn through MP much faster, which directly impacts their survivability

Raiju is like any stun or silence, in CC if you need to get out of dodge immediately else you get oneshot, you purify, period. You just need to keep in mind that a second one is probably coming not long after when your purify expires (so 2s after which is nothing), and potentially a third if you're playing against min maxers.

And I strictly disagree with your arbitrary separation between melee and range CC, that's just pure nonsense to me. They all have it in equal measures, no matter the type.

I have played Samurai pretty extensively, although not at ranked level, but I do know the job well. You don't need Mineuchi to land Ogi or any cast no. The range is huge, and you also have an AoE bind at disposal which is usually a savvier choice to have the target purify it so that you can stun them after, especially after eating your first wave of damage before they recup out of it. I think you reason way too much with a FL mindset there.

If you find you are getting targeted, it only takes a few seconds to purify, heal and retreat. Again, unless you stuck your neck out too far.

That's... not how it works in CC past a certain level, especially versus stuns or silences that disallow guarding without purifying.

FL comment then, nevermind me

[Divinemights]

Raiju is like any stun or silence, in CC if you need to get out of dodge immediately else you get oneshot, you purify, period. You just need to keep in mind that a second one is probably coming not long after when your purify expires (so 2s after which is nothing), and potentially a third if you're playing against min maxers.

Raiju isn’t a guard breaker.
Trading Raiju’s 1-second stun for 5,000 MP (especially when you still have to wait four seconds before you can use Purify again) isn’t a good trade.
What happened to Guard as an option?
As I’ve said, it’s your personal choice, and I’m not here to question it.

It’s fine if you disagree with my take; I’m simply presenting my perspective along with my supporting arguments.
You can certainly do the same and present your own reasoning.
Overall, the reception to the new Purify change has been negative across all four regions—that much I can concur with.

[Valence]

Raiju isn’t a guard breaker.
Trading Raiju’s 1-second stun for 5,000 MP (especially when you still have to wait four seconds before you can use Purify again) isn’t a good trade.
What happened to Guard as an option?
As I’ve said, it’s your personal choice, and I’m not here to question it.

It’s fine if you disagree with my take; I’m simply presenting my perspective along with my supporting arguments.
You can certainly do the same and present your own reasoning.
Overall, the reception to the new Purify change has been negative across all four regions—that much I can concur with.

Why are we moving the goalposts to guard breakers (that are found, AGAIN, both on the melee and ranged side, actually thrice more on the melee's side, by the way)? What guard option are you talking about?

1s may also save your life at high level in CC. Whether or not you'll need it again for the second stun, if the stun doesn't occur before purify is up again, is another story.
If you're speaking about FL, maybe, maybe not, I don't know. I never know for sure what mode you're talking about.

[Divinemights]

Why are we moving the goalposts to guard breakers (that are found, AGAIN, both on the melee and ranged side, actually thrice more on the melee's side, by the way)? What guard option are you talking about?

1s may also save your life at high level in CC. Whether or not you'll need it again for the second stun, if the stun doesn't occur before purify is up again, is another story.
If you're speaking about FL, maybe, maybe not, I don't know. I never know for sure what mode you're talking about.

I’ve said multiple times that I’m not interested in debating why someone would spend 5,000 MP just for Raiju as that’s your personal playstyle.
From my perspective, I have experience both playing as and against Ninja, so I know its weaknesses.
I solo-kill frequently in new/old Secure and old Shattered under 5.1 PvP, and I wouldn’t trade Purify for Raiju.

Regarding CC, I’m not sure if Diamond counts as “high CC,” since I’ve only played three seasons and casual mode on Seize day.
Even so, I still wouldn’t make that trade.
My stance always focus on overall PvP, as I spend roughly 70% of my time in Frontline and 30% in CC.
Hopefully this clarifies my stance.