Predictions for OC/FT Live Letter

[Jeeqbit]

HoH and EO were never really able to capture the same success as PotD.

The reason POTD was successful is simple. It can be done from level 17. So there are a constant supply of new players potentially being recommended to give it a try because it's "good for leveling".

But once those players have tried it, they're probably bored of it. Running through, 1-shotting mobs, struggling to get queues, when roulettes provide them far more variety and new players have the MSQ anyway.

By the time you get to HoH, you either didn't unlock POTD yet and can't unlock it, or you ignore the sidequest in the Ruby Sea. If you do manage to unlock it, you probably won't get a queue for it to clear up to where people farm it (floors 21-30). People even struggle with clearing 1-50 of POTD now. Because most people in queue are at 51-60.

When EO released, anyone who wanted to level jobs probably already did. The queues were dead on release, to the point my only option was to solo 1-30. So EO ended up being more useful for solo achievement hunters. People may do it for leveling reasons in the future now that it's old, but they'll suffer the same issue as HoH - they can't get anyone to help them clear 1-30 so they can farm 21-30.

You didn't have allied tribe quests that - from SHB onwards - give you half a level of XP a day.

This isn't true and here's why. In Heavensward and Stormblood we had two battle tribes. Moreover, the exp increased if we maxed out the rank. What changed in Shadowbringers was we only had one battle tribe so they could split the other two between crafter/gatherer, thus the exp was doubled for the battle tribe.

But doing one tribe is slightly less work than doing two, that is true, and you don't have to wait as long into the expansion to get the maximum exp benefit.

PvP was not as popular back then, so no half a level from frontline roulette as well

I vaguely recall people saying it was good even before all these revamps, but because PvP wasn't popular overall it wasn't as widely recommended. Can't recommend something you don't do, after all. I still think that even if Feast wasn't that popular, that Frontline was still a thing though because of simply being in the roulette list. It was just an if you know then you know, if you don't then you'll probably never even see the acronym "PvP" anywhere.

The qol that allows you to queue and play on different jobs and more easily receive XP on the job you wanted did not exist back then either.

It has existed since Frontline was implemented in 2.3, and it's been a thing ever since I can remember.

We've got prominent, 'influencers' setting just the best example (/sarcasm) to their fanatics that discords are great just 'because' they keep out the wrong people.

That's all irrelevant. If you join a discord run through their processes, follow the instructions and join the relevant voice channel when it starts, then all you do is listen. For example, they will say things like "everyone to the right". "It's going to cleave behind in 10 seconds. Get in front. 3... 2... 1..." etc. It makes the fights incredibly trivial, provided you are capable of pressing your movement keys.

It's often a little more involved for tanks, but that's expected (add placement, interrupts, aggro, TBs).

You've got logs in every discord.

In my experience that's more of an EU thing. Not saying it doesn't happen on NA, but it's a minority. The vast majority of NA (including its raiders) are incredibly casual so they come back undergeared and everything. Finding a party that don't care about performance is incredibly easy here.

frankly how dare you suggest (because i know you are not clueless Jeeqbit) that that is not the the stance with which those FT discords are ubiquitous.

I've spoken to the leaders of some of these discords. I'm not just saying it.

[Mawlzy]

If you join a discord run through their processes, follow the instructions and join the relevant voice channel when it starts, then all you do is listen. For example, they will say things like "everyone to the right". "It's going to cleave behind in 10 seconds. Get in front. 3... 2... 1..." etc. It makes the fights incredibly trivial, provided you are capable of pressing your movement keys.

I'm really glad you gave this description, Jeeqbit, because it will deter players from getting involved in this nonsense.

The majority of people who get online to play a game, have absolutely no interest in following instructions, then following directions. They already have a job that is far more rewarding than that.

Moreover, if this process makes the fight "trivial," what on earth is the point?

Apparently it's not the casuals at all that fear challenge, it's those that only engage in content that requires them to march up and down on the parade ground following the orders of a drill sergeant.

[Mawlzy]

You arent owed anything, you can do your own research into the "discord cartels" lmao

God forbid people have to be social in an MMORPG.

Social? The screen shot shared by Gurgeh includes the demand "cassez vous." It best translates to "get lost." It is commonly used when a dog walks up to you and you want it to "scram."

Sticking "svp" on the end is as meaningless as a British person saying "I don't mean to be rude, but..." and following it with a withering insult.

[SophiaDL]

Social? The screen shot shared by Gurgeh includes the demand "cassez vous." It best translates to "get lost." It is commonly used when a dog walks up to you and you want it to "scram."

Sticking "svp" on the end is as meaningless as a British person saying "I don't mean to be rude, but..." and following it with a withering insult.

I meant the discord part, having to join a discord.

Granted I dont see the point of having the content if it requires a discord in the first place as the area is supposed to be casual, but if it has to be there for the "hardcore" ones, discord is a good way to do it. People did want difficulty after all and difficulty usually goes hand in hand with discord or whatever other program people use for voice chats.

[Jeeqbit]

The majority of people who get online to play a game, have absolutely no interest in following instructions, then following directions. They already have a job that is far more rewarding than that.

While you may be correct, the fact is, SE made the content complicated enough that following instructions and directions is needed either way. Even if you somehow did not do it through Discord, you would need to go through the process of assigning roles and discussing strategies. In some cases, you may need to explain the fight as well. You even have to do all this if you join an Extreme or Savage PF.

Add to this that SE makes it even more complicated with things such as farming Logos/Lost Actions, leveling Phantom jobs (or looting them). And what you have is enough that a Discord is going to write a guide about which actions/jobs are needed for what, and what you may need to grind for it, etc. Writing such a guide is reasonable, of course, to help people.

Moreover, if this process makes the fight "trivial," what on earth is the point?

That is always the point. Back in ancient times, apes and early humans would build tools to gain an advantage and "trivialize" their task. When you do content, whether it be dungeons, extremes or higher end raids, it's common to watch a guide and those guides are made to trivialize the content and make it easier for the masses. In similar fashion, the purpose of these Discord servers is to trivialize the content for the masses and make it so the least skilled player possible can clear.

As you always like to point out, some people will never have the ability to clear things due to disabilities, age, or whatever, but the Discords try their best to trivialize it for them as much as possible and work around SE's poorly implemented systems.

[Kozh]

Yes I'll grant you 'Upper class' is controversial and emotive of me. Provocative. But it makes a point doesn't it? It communicates the reality of how at least one of us feels and I would suggest more than one? What do you think Jeeqbit?

No it doesn't make a point. At least not *your* point.

I don't like how FT is handled either, but you're being nasty over this argument. You're pulling the most extreme toxic elitist example, which is very rare and doesn't reflect the raider community. Most people who raids are chill. And if you join their discord, you will know that.

Funny how you're butthurt over "progliar" when that term exist for a reason.

[Kozh]

The majority of people who get online to play a game, have absolutely no interest in following instructions, then following directions. They already have a job that is far more rewarding than that.

Except callout like that is the norm for EX and Savage though. And honestly joining callout party feels better than having to bash your head repeatedly by pugging it via PF with randos. Not to say I have trouble with pug considering JP raid are mostly pug/PF.

Not to mention that callout doesn't necessarily means discord only. You can have callouts using macro chat.

I guess you never join this kind of thing if you say it makes fight trivial. Yes it helps (sometimes a lot), but it doesn't trivialize things.

[Enjuden]

ITT, TC decides that going in with Knight when a thief is required to progress the content is a great idea, and oops, they just happened to snipe the Phantom Thief spot so the entire alliance breaks.

Guess we'll just have to wait another two to three hours because someone wanted to be cute.

[Mawlzy]

As you always like to point out, some people will never have the ability to clear things due to disabilities, age, or whatever, but the Discords try their best to trivialize it for them as much as possible and work around SE's poorly implemented systems.

I can agree with poorly-implemented systems. The SE devs sit there rubbing their hands together as they increase cast speed and add an increasing number of overlapping AoEs, then equally devoted guide makers and shot-callers reverse-engineer the work of the devs to find the simplest solution.

It is the worst approach to PvE design I have seen in any game ever, and one reason I'm letting my sub expire.

Incidentally, I have been a member of Discords related to this game in the past. IME it is the minority that create a friendly environment in which the key personnel are motivated by a love of the game and a desire to help. The majority are spiteful fiefdoms run by manipulative individuals, while others promote in-game cheating and ToS violations.

But maybe I've just been unlucky.

[Mawlzy]

Except callout like that is the norm for EX and Savage though. And honestly joining callout party feels better than having to bash your head repeatedly by pugging it via PF with randos. Not to say I have trouble with pug considering JP raid are mostly pug/PF.

Not to mention that callout doesn't necessarily means discord only. You can have callouts using macro chat.

I guess you never join this kind of thing if you say it makes fight trivial. Yes it helps (sometimes a lot), but it doesn't trivialize things.

Of course I never join this sort of thing, it repulses me, but it was Jeeqbit who informed me it makes the fight trivial, hence my use of quotation marks.

I have no doubt that a call-out party is easier than pugging it, as you say. Again, to me the whole operation is simply pointless.