#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[Kohashi]

Their vision was 1.0

That’s always been the stupidest logic

14 is literally the exact refutation of your following point, if the developers just went “fuck your we made this game play it or leave it” the game would have died in 1.0

The main difference is that the devs listened to what the majority said, and you ain't in that category for sure, even if some might share your sentiment.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

For the love of Hydaelyn, it's Mr.Majoritah's super sikkrit weapon.

"dev listened to what majority said"
also same dev: "VPR can't have noxious gas!; DRG will no longer be jumping!; Stormblood Lily is our pinnacle of healer's design!! Please try before complaining!!!"

Where are these feedbacks even collected...

[ForsakenRoe]

As for WoW healers being incredibly popular, a dozen recent posts and data contradict your claim. Perhaps the healing spec of the Paladin is more popular than other specs but it doesn't mean healers overall are popular. Tigore did comment on it and his estimation and take on it sounded a lot closer to reality and in line with what I have also found than what you say.

Tigore seems to be more on about 'Retail WOW', since he mentions 'Tank/Healer get instant queues'. I was on about Classic WOW, the re-release of older versions of the game (and specifically data about a server for Vanilla), which does not have queues at all, because it requires the players form a party in town and go to the dungeon entrance manually (a relic of older MMO design). And in that, the 'hybrid classes' (ie the ones that have a spec for healing, and a spec for damage) have been mathed out to be 'play this as a Healer, or you are literally griefing, that's how bad your DPS spec is' because Blizzard hadn't really worked out 'class balance' at that point. So if someone picks Shaman/Paladin/Priest/Druid, it's a pretty safe bet that they're intending to play it as a Healer. Thus, the dataset I saw which said that 'Shamans (90%+ of which are going to be played as a Healer) are played as much as Hunter (one of the most popular specs in WOW because you get to have a cute pet ally)' is quite interesting to me, as I'd never have expected such a result to occur

[Supersnow845]

The main difference is that the devs listened to what the majority said, and you ain't in that category for sure, even if some might share your sentiment.

I guess it’s easy to say the majority is always right when you can retroactively go “good feedback is from the majority, bad feedback is from the minority”

It’s like people who decide whether a game is “woke” or not based on if it was successful after the fact

[Aravell]

I guess it’s easy to say the majority is always right when you can retroactively go “good feedback is from the majority, bad feedback is from the minority”

It’s like people who decide whether a game is “woke” or not based on if it was successful after the fact

It's impossible to argue with someone who thinks the decisions made by the devs are always the will of the majority.

[Tigore]

In a way, it is more applicable to retail WoW for the dungeon roulette function. I can comment a bit before the game had that feature. I still remembered not having dungeon roulette at the start of the 2nd expansion Wrath of the Lich King. Probably the first time I remember using it would be the 5 man dungeons created alongside the final Lich King raid. There was a big mix of opinions whether the new feature was good or not. It can be viewed as a boon for getting into a dungeon almost anytime you wanted throughout the day rather than spamming Trade chat for hours. Since you will have some tanks and healers dropping group after waiting so long. On the other hand, some of the guild players didn't want to touch it with a 10 foot pole since they believed the cross server grouping killed any sense of community and accountability for the players.

The latter opinion may seem to make the most sense, but remember that not all tank or healer players are paragons. The bad apples may not have been noticed as much because some of us are often already occupying the tank or healer slot in the 4 / 5 man groups. We would have to queue the other roles or try out the 24 man LFR raid to actually see them. I have met with a few innocently stubborn and insufferable players from both tanks and healers from my time over there. I could give more details of why, but it would be quite the essay for some example stories. I will just say it was definitely regarded as a better option for devs to implement dungeon finders. Just to make sure the casual players aren't locked out of content from funny work hours.

Also with the role parity debate, it could very well favor the point of changing the healer DPS rotations back to resemble a Stormblood type of spell list. Since the healers having the lowest personal damage and worst soloing style would likely factor in more to drive the popularity down. Making it too boring to play would just make it worse with a 3rd factor. I could have sworn that the Warcraft forums had players suggesting they potentially bump their 5 man parties to 6 man with an extra DPS. Whether that would have worked or not I don't know since it still remained 5 man for many expansions. It would require increasing the enemy HP pools of all dungeons changed as a negative for sure.

[Shurrikhan]

Tbh, even in WoW, my favorite periods for playing healers were ones in which they could skill-expressively put out decent value beyond just their sustain (healing/shields/%DR)...

[Kohashi]

I gues8s it’s easy to say the majority is always right when you can retroactively go “good feedback is from the majority, bad feedback is from the minority”
8
It’s like people who decide whether a game is “woke” or not based on if it was successful after the fact

I never said they are bad, you are twisting things yet again to fit your narrative.

It makes absolutely no sense to listen to the minority from a business standpoint. Why would you want to appeal to 0.0025% of the player base instead of the rest? At the end of the day, SE is still a business. they can make these updates and content thanks to the majority.

The thing that I find extremely annoying in this discussion is the absolute entitlement some people have. Like, sit the F down

[Supersnow845]

I never said they are bad, you are twisting things yet again to fit your narrative.

It makes absolutely no sense to listen to the minority from a business standpoint. Why would you want to appeal to 0.0025% of the player base instead of the rest? At the end of the day, SE is still a business. they can make these updates and content thanks to the majority.

The thing that I find extremely annoying in this discussion is the absolute entitlement some people have. Like, sit the F down

You say as you have literally zero evidence you are the majority other than the fact that it’s your opinion nor do you have any evidence that what we are suggesting would be Hated by everyone who isn’t us and therefore it’s your assumed minority vs everyone else. In a discussion on the state of healers 95% (generic number meaning vast majority) of players don’t care either way, you can’t assume they would say no in order to induce inertia, that’s just stupid

You act like we are entitled while taking your own opinion as the default “assumed developer” opinion so therefore it can’t be wrong

Introspection is hard apparently

[Kes13a]

As for WoW healers being incredibly popular, a dozen recent posts and data contradict your claim. Perhaps the healing spec of the Paladin is more popular than other specs but it doesn't mean healers overall are popular. Tigore did comment on it and his estimation and take on it sounded a lot closer to reality and in line with what I have also found than what you say.

I have a very basic understanding of WoW (I never really played it) and I had to do a bit of research on which specs are considered healing (lol) to see if the WoW player base claims/posts held any truth or if it was also skewed by personal perception as it is in some post in FF14 forums.

a whole dozen??? thats CLEARLY a majority view then. I am impressed.. a dozen recent posts CLEARLY reject any data of WoW healers being more popular.

hate to point it out but... anything is going to be all "personal perception". as for WoW, in my experience, and I only have about 12 years of experience playing WoW, the healing there is is more rewarding. I didnt leave that game because of the healing, I left because of the company and the game direction. FFXIV, however, I dislike being treated like a turnip in order to play jobs I enjoy.

oh, my apologies, I didnt mean to call you a turnip for loving FFXIV healer design (nor did I mean to imply it)