fflogs and privacy

[BigCheez]

The problem with those sites is they don't really tell you all that much at all.

You cannot for example look at a parse on fflogs and be like ok that players dragoon is i1000 and has an i950 weapon. And gear is a MAJOR component in damage, especially with the games power creep..

So while you may look at a parse see a player is green and conclude that players terrible. Maybe they're not. Maybe they're playing the job properly but don't really chase the treadmill to much. It's tedious af having to rebuild every job every patch..

It doesn't take much to drop you from lets say the 90th percentile right down to the 60s, 50s. Mayve even 40s Sometimes just 10-20 i-levels. And if your around 50% your basically "average"

Better gear alone can take a player from green to purple in some cases but players just see green and automatically conclude bad player. When in reality you can be a good or great player just not in the latest and greatest gear because treadmill is tedious af.

This is also why many players pad the level requirements on PF groups so much because gear goes an incredibly long way to cover for a bad player.

I do very much agree with the op that these things should be opt in. Not opt out. And any player dated from players not opted in should be anonymized. And show as "unknown dragoon" or something



Not at all. In the case of an opt in system the lack of information on a player would almost always be interpreted as they havent registered to the site. Or don't even know it exists.

The problem is not that the website isn't useful. The problem is that you don't know how to use the website.

If you're looking at the parse % and nothing else, you're doing it wrong.

Check their clear dates to see how early they have cleared content previously. Check logs for their first kills to see how they play in prog. Check if the player is using their defensives and where they're using them. Use XIV Analysis to check their damage rotation.

The gear that they have equipped is completely irrelevant.

[Dzian]

]snipped.

You Ma'am! (Based on your avatar) should be considered a role model.

If the community as a whole used the site like you there would be so much less toxicity and negativity around it.

I applaud you. And that's from someone that still believes the site should be oot in not opt out.

The problem is not that the website isn't useful. The problem is that you don't know how to use the website..

I'l be the first to admit i don't fully understand it or how to interpret it correctly.

The issue is that same statement can be said about a significant percentage of the site's users. That's the problem.

And a significant amount of those people "think" they do know how to use it but actually don't. And that's what creates a lot of the dramas and toxicity

I lost interest in raiding quite early in heavensward after they neutered coils. And have basically said F the treadmill ever since. Any raiding I've done since has usually been slot filler for statics. Which is why my clears are all over I've cleared pandemonium 1 3 and 6 and 1 other for example but not 2 4 5 7..

[Tulvi]

Wanting to hide your fflogs is a massive red flag

No it’s not a red flag. I do high end content, or at least have a go at few savage / extreme clears every expansion as I’m not someone who would enjoy something like a raid schedule (I personally dislike subjecting my gameplay to a schedule, it’s a pastime for me and a static schedule would make it feel like a chore), and I never had problems clearing without looking up people on FF logs. I have my own character opted out for harassment reasons I encountered back in WoW, where the player base was overly toxic by standard and I’d also say by design. From my 10+ years of experience from WoW, I absolutely agree with Yoshi that DPS meters and logs do fuel toxicity and are unnecessary unless someone wants to optimise their gameplay to the limit.

From my experience with Savage / Extreme, the only reason when logs might be needed is when forming a static and you as a group want to min-max and optimise the **** out of the gameplay / rotation.
Otherwise, I have never felt the need to consult FF logs in any content I have cleared, because in 99% cases of clearing / progging through Party Finder, it is very evident what is the issue if the group is struggling, and people who screw something up usually identify the problem on their own. Plus most PF parties disband before any issue might be resolved, but that’s another topic entirely.

[Rehayem]

snip

While it's nice you have that kind of perspective, I think it's important to remember the logs have been and will be used for harassment, whether someone likes it or not. I think it's fair if people that play casually want to hide it because, let's be real, don't think that one really matters that much, does it? Unless people use that to analyze if said person knows their job.

[CaedemSanguis]

No it’s not a red flag. I do high end content, or at least have a go at few savage / extreme clears every expansion as I’m not someone who would enjoy something like a raid schedule (I personally dislike subjecting my gameplay to a schedule, it’s a pastime for me and a static schedule would make it feel like a chore), and I never had problems clearing without looking up people on FF logs. I have my own character opted out for harassment reasons I encountered back in WoW, where the player base was overly toxic by standard and I’d also say by design. From my 10+ years of experience from WoW, I absolutely agree with Yoshi that DPS meters and logs do fuel toxicity and are unnecessary unless someone wants to optimise their gameplay to the limit.

From my experience with Savage / Extreme, the only reason when logs might be needed is when forming a static and you as a group want to min-max and optimise the **** out of the gameplay / rotation.
Otherwise, I have never felt the need to consult FF logs in any content I have cleared, because in 99% cases of clearing / progging through Party Finder, it is very evident what is the issue if the group is struggling, and people who screw something up usually identify the problem on their own. Plus most PF parties disband before any issue might be resolved, but that’s another topic entirely.

most people saying "hiding your log is a red flag" are talking about you applying in a static

and yes it's a red flag when you apply for a static

nobody cares about your logs when doing extremes or savages week 15

[Tulvi]

most people saying "hiding your log is a red flag" are talking about you applying in a static

and yes it's a red flag when you apply for a static

nobody cares about your logs when doing extremes or savages week 15

Every time I’ve done savage, it was week 1-2 and I’ve never seen anyone asking for FF logs. But I do agree with static groups, I even said that’s the only instance in which I find it relevant.

[Collin_Sky]

most people saying "hiding your log is a red flag" are talking about you applying in a static

and yes it's a red flag when you apply for a static

nobody cares about your logs when doing extremes or savages week 15

Nah, my perspective is that it's information. Information is best when it's freely available, and people who use it to be shitty should be punished. Removing that because of shitty people is never answer. Deal with the shitty people, and others wouldn't feel the need to hide it.

[CaedemSanguis]

Every time I’ve done savage, it was week 1-2 and I’ve never seen anyone asking for FF logs. But I do agree with static groups, I even said that’s the only instance in which I find it relevant.

so joining a p8s clear party week 1 in pf, noboby has asked your logs ?

[TaleraRistain]

The problem with those sites is they don't really tell you all that much at all.

You cannot for example look at a parse on fflogs and be like ok that players dragoon is i1000 and has an i950 weapon. And gear is a MAJOR component in damage, especially with the games power creep..

So while you may look at a parse see a player is green and conclude that players terrible. Maybe they're not. Maybe they're playing the job properly but don't really chase the treadmill to much. It's tedious af having to rebuild every job every patch..

It doesn't take much to drop you from lets say the 90th percentile right down to the 60s, 50s. Mayve even 40s Sometimes just 10-20 i-levels. And if your around 50% your basically "average"

Better gear alone can take a player from green to purple in some cases but players just see green and automatically conclude bad player. When in reality you can be a good or great player just not in the latest and greatest gear because treadmill is tedious af.

This is also why many players pad the level requirements on PF groups so much because gear goes an incredibly long way to cover for a bad player.

I do very much agree with the op that these things should be opt in. Not opt out. And any player dated from players not opted in should be anonymized. And show as "unknown dragoon" or something

There are also the things that numbers won't tell you.

My static has an amazing astro. Honestly, I wonder sometimes why he's with our casual static because he's just fantastic. He gets incredibly high numbers but as his main tank I never have to worry that he's too focused on dps and will let me or the rest of the party down when we need him.

My friend who is also the main tank has two static healers who focus on dps and have just as high numbers as he does, but she's constantly talking about how they either let her die to greed or she has to blow all her mit to stay alive. Her healers don't support her and only chase their own numbers, to the detriment of their static's progress sometimes.

Those who only look at log numbers would classify those two healers the same but they are miles apart in their value to the party.

There's also the grey or green parser you might get in PF who picks up things quickly or is incredibly accurate with mechanics. I know most PF groups I've been in would rather have that person than someone with a higher number who constantly greeds and wipes the party, or can't do the mechanics well in a PF setting and seems like they might usually have some sort of callout helping them.

[Tulvi]

so joining a p8s clear party week 1 in pf, noboby has asked your logs ?

I've never done whole raid tiers, usually up to first 2-3 for fun. And no, never seen such request. The parties were usually prog parties and if we cleared, we cleared. If I joined another party progging let's say enrage a few days later, still no request to provide logs.