fflogs and privacy

[Valence]

As you may know fflogs doesn't work on an opt-in model: you have to actually register to opt-out and have your pages set to private, and in fact data about your character and performance is stored and displayed publicly without any consent for everyone unregistered. After seeing that fiasco with that third party mod exploiting the blacklist system, and fflogs also working on a similar opt-in model, this reminded me that I've always found this a little concerning in the first place.

I know SE has little control over external websites, but I do think they still hold some modicum of power into what that can declare "cool" or "not cool".

I'd respectfully ask SE if we can finally have a piece of their mind on this. Thanks.

[Menriq]

As you may know fflogs doesn't work on an opt-in model: you have to actually register to opt-out and have your pages set to private, and in fact data about your character and performance is stored and displayed publicly without any consent for everyone unregistered. After seeing that fiasco with that third party mod exploiting the blacklist system, and fflogs also working on a similar opt-in model, this reminded me that I've always found this a little concerning in the first place.

I know SE has little control over external websites, but I do think they still hold some modicum of power into what that can declare "cool" or "not cool".

I'd respectfully ask SE if we can finally have a piece of their mind on this. Thanks.

I'm legitimately curious. How would you expect them to control an external website? They've already declared addons are not approved.

[Kes13a]

I'm legitimately curious. How would you expect them to control an external website? They've already declared addons are not approved.

well, I am sure that they dont get the information out of the aether, so that means that they are accessing FFXIV information from the servers.

SE, since they are THEIR servers could close that loophole.

they dont need to control the external website at all... they need to control their own information on their own servers

[Menriq]

well, I am sure that they dont get the information out of the aether, so that means that they are accessing FFXIV information from the servers.

SE, since they are THEIR servers could close that loophole.

they dont need to control the external website at all... they need to control their own information on their own servers

The current addons aren't accessing the server. They are getting the information that is sent to the client.

[Kes13a]

ahhh, that makes some sense. Thank you ^^

so having to manually opt out is basically a retroactive blanking of your data on someone elses data.

still, its SE's client isnt it? lol

either way, if there are privacy concerns, it falls to SE to sort it out

[Ghost_of_Ebina]

ahhh, that makes some sense. Thank you ^^

so having to manually opt out is basically a retroactive blanking of your data on someone elses data.

still, its SE's client isnt it? lol

either way, if there are privacy concerns, it falls to SE to sort it out

The only way SE can stop fflogs is by displaying no battle text at all.
All fflogs does is display data based on battle logs submitted by users, they don't access any "server."

[ForteNightshade]

As you may know fflogs doesn't work on an opt-in model: you have to actually register to opt-out and have your pages set to private, and in fact data about your character and performance is stored and displayed publicly without any consent for everyone unregistered. After seeing that fiasco with that third party mod exploiting the blacklist system, and fflogs also working on a similar opt-in model, this reminded me that I've always found this a little concerning in the first place.

You're trying to conflate two very difference circumstances here.

Your performance in a raid isn't private information nor do you own it. FFlogs simply takes numbers, calculates them and gives a percentile based on the results. The plugin you're trying to compare this with hitching onto your unique ID to find all retainer information, alts and essentially exposes information for the sole purpose of revealing your in-game identity. Bluntly stated, FFlogs is utilitarian in what it aims to accomplish, especially in a game so driven by DPS. Whereas the plugin is potentially insidious and serves little practical purpose beyond that.

well, I am sure that they dont get the information out of the aether, so that means that they are accessing FFXIV information from the servers.

SE, since they are THEIR servers could close that loophole.

they dont need to control the external website at all... they need to control their own information on their own servers

As others have said, all ACT does is take the mess that is our battle log, which is client side and regurgitate that data into a readable format. FFlogs takes it a step further by breaking everything down. The only way SE could stop this would be encrypting encounter data so it no longer is sent client side, but then ACT would simply be updated to get around that. In other words, it'll turn into an arms' race SE won't ever win.

[Kaurhz]

As you may know fflogs doesn't work on an opt-in model (you have to actually register to opt-out and have your pages set to private). After seeing that fiasco with that third party mod exploiting the blacklist system, and fflogs also working on a similar opt-in model, this reminded me that I've always found this a little concerning in the first place.

I know SE has little control over external websites, but I do think they still hold some modicum of power into what that can declare "cool" or "not cool".

I'd respectfully ask SE if we can finally have a piece of their mind on this. Thanks.

In an ideal universe I do think the opt-in model would be preferable for anything that is collecting data on another player, but in the case of this specific site, I don't see it as detrimental, inherently anyway.

The problem you would have with this specific site is that the use of it is just so normalized.

SE does need to do something anyway, especially in the instance of privacy, as this is one of those situations where the community has near enough unilaterally gone "No, this is too much, it is too far", so it's well up to Square Enix as to what level they do or don't condone such tools. If they maintain the hands off and ignoring approach that they have historically done, then I do think it will only get more invasive since someone has now opened that genie bottle.

I get enforcing it is not easy, but at this point they aren't even trying to create a deterrent beyond that obligatory entry in the ToS.

[Hanayumi]

As far as im concerned theyve already mentioned it time and time again, "All good" just dont use it to abuse others as that could be bannable offense. As for fflogs its not a mod at all it just reads data, and as far as they're concerned would be way... to costly to continuously encrypt, so basically they have to turn a blind eye until it stirs up enough trouble.

[AvoSturmfaust]

OFC who thought about it, there is ESOLogs, WoWLogs, the same Site has something for so many MMOs and its accepted everywhere from the playerbase but ofc the Final Fantasy Player are crying yet again about it