Please let us keep our abilities on sync down

[Buttobi]

If WoW can do this then I don't understand why ffxiv can't do this.

[BigCheez]

If WoW can do this then I don't understand why ffxiv can't do this.

Because it works absolutely horribly in WoW. You end up with a low level player in heirlooms pressing 1 button and doing 10x as much damage as a max level player in BiS gear.

[Shougun]

Because it works absolutely horribly in WoW. You end up with a low level player in heirlooms pressing 1 button and doing 10x as much damage as a max level player in BiS gear.

Personally, that's fine compared to how we are doing it. 1 person who is leveling and feels super cool and is helping me speed run, vs everyone playing a terrible version of themselves? I'll take it. Though WoW could do it better, sure lol. The level 10 warriors that are geared for it are hilariously different.

[BigCheez]

Personally, that's fine compared to how we are doing it. 1 person who is leveling and feels super cool and is helping me speed run, vs everyone playing a terrible version of themselves? I'll take it. Though WoW could do it better, sure lol. The level 10 warriors that are geared for it are hilariously different.

I don't think so. The main difference is that it doesn't really matter because you aren't synced for anything other than easy timewalking dungeons, while in FFXIV syncing for old endgame content is actually a thing.

There's also the issue of somehow needing to find a way to have a CNJ with only Stone, Aero and Cure 1 perform at the same level as a lvl 100 WHM with Holy and a full suite of oGCD heals, and the equivalent issue for tanks, to avoid scenarios where people are annoyed by being matched with low level sprouts.

I think a much healthier solution to the problem would be to holistically rework the leveling experience so that jobs don't feel as horrendous to play at lower levels.

[Shougun]

I don't think so. The main difference is that it doesn't really matter because you aren't synced for anything other than easy timewalking dungeons, while in FFXIV syncing for old endgame content is actually a thing.

There's also the issue of somehow needing to find a way to have a CNJ with only Stone, Aero and Cure 1 perform at the same level as a lvl 100 WHM with Holy and a full suite of oGCD heals, and the equivalent issue for tanks, to avoid scenarios where people are annoyed by being matched with low level sprouts.

I think a much healthier solution to the problem would be to holistically rework the leveling experience so that jobs don't feel as horrendous to play at lower levels.

Heals, for all this regular content is irrelevant- we already have too much healing power. The damage, is going to be a little funky (like in WoW) but a clear difference is in WoW with timewalking lower levels are scaled up. Here we are only scaling higher levels down, we don't need to touch the lower level that much. Potency of the higher level kit would be curved down, so that it is 'roughly' right. That is why I mentioned potentially if you took a complete level (say) 30 kit and compared it to a level 100, the potency would lightly favor the level 30 BUT the features of the level 100 would make up for it. Also baring in mind that the level 100 is probably bringing max ilvl while the new player is not.


This is easier than WoW's situation cause in WoW people are going both directions. Here we're really only focused on smoothly curving people down. I also think this is much easier long term then trying to set up a good kit, and then not mess up that good kit (like they do) each expansion. So I believe creating the best as reasonably possible curve is a better, more stable, long term solution than anything else.

[Emitans]

Because it works absolutely horribly in WoW. You end up with a low level player in heirlooms pressing 1 button and doing 10x as much damage as a max level player in BiS gear.

Better than in XIV where everyone is pressing 1 button and doing 10x as much damage as the content was designed for while bored out of their minds.

[Jeeqbit]

If WoW can do this then I don't understand why ffxiv can't do this.

I'm sure SE can do it (they do it with Blue Mage and Role Actions). It's just that there are benefits to it being this way, that's all.

In MMORPGs, a lot of people want to "go back to a previous expansion". In quite a big way, you can in this game, in part because of prior expansion content being relevant (via roulettes) but also in part because of rotations syncing down.

But also, I don't know if other games' combat works the same way or not. In this game, everything isn't on the GCD, so additional abilities can unbalance older content. In this game, you have potency, which is the percentage of your base damage that is dealt (ie. 400 potency is 400% damage).

So if a higher level attack has 800 potency in Sastasha, they would need to find a way to also sync down the actual potency, not just the item level, and I am not sure that there is a universal table with this information for the sync system to reference (they would need to create it).

[Shougun]

I'm sure SE can do it (they do it with Blue Mage and Role Actions). It's just that there are benefits to it being this way, that's all.

In MMORPGs, a lot of people want to "go back to a previous expansion". In quite a big way, you can in this game, in part because of prior expansion content being relevant (via roulettes) but also in part because of rotations syncing down.

But also, I don't know if other games' combat works the same way or not. In this game, everything isn't on the GCD, so additional abilities can unbalance older content. In this game, you have potency, which is the percentage of your base damage that is dealt (ie. 400 potency is 400% damage).

So if a higher level attack has 800 potency in Sastasha, they would need to find a way to also sync down the actual potency, not just the item level, and I am not sure that there is a universal table with this information for the sync system to reference (they would need to create it).

The math isn't perfect, which is what BigCheez alluded too, but largely these things can be 'accounted' for. The combat is similar, just less structured than ours. It 'could' work. There will be offsets, but having tried both- imo, please do it differently...



Also I get your point but why cant we just "min skill" like we "min ilvl"?

[BigCheez]

I'm sure SE can do it (they do it with Blue Mage and Role Actions). It's just that there are benefits to it being this way, that's all.

In MMORPGs, a lot of people want to "go back to a previous expansion". In quite a big way, you can in this game, in part because of prior expansion content being relevant (via roulettes) but also in part because of rotations syncing down.

But also, I don't know if other games' combat works the same way or not. In this game, everything isn't on the GCD, so additional abilities can unbalance older content. In this game, you have potency, which is the percentage of your base damage that is dealt (ie. 400 potency is 400% damage).

So if a higher level attack has 800 potency in Sastasha, they would need to find a way to also sync down the actual potency, not just the item level, and I am not sure that there is a universal table with this information for the sync system to reference (they would need to create it).

There's no scaling for BLU, they just get all of their spells at level 1. Have you ever run old content synced with a BLU in your party? They'll do 2-4x as much damage as anyone else in the party.

[Jeeqbit]

There's no scaling for BLU, they just get all of their spells at level 1. Have you ever run old content synced with a BLU in your party? They'll do 2-4x as much damage as anyone else in the party.

There is the Item Level scaling still. But the problem I explained in my post causes it to still be overpowered, especially if they use their primal abilities. And this is why the "additional abilities" and "potency" factors would need sorting.

I have thought that they could achieve sorting the potency issue by reducing the potency, using the level difference between the attack and the dungeon as a percentage to reduce the potency by.

There are however skills where capping PPM would do nothing because of how they work (like WAR's bloodwhetting,or the amount of oGCD healing healers have), which would need special attention and a different solution.

Unfortunately, reducing the potency as I just described wouldn't solve this issue of us having access to abilities like Bloodwhetting that just completely unbalance the content regardless of potency.

What plays into all this is the fact SE has rarely ever revisited old content. It took 7 years before they revisited the ARR story and the whole 10 years before they had revamped all the old MSQ dungeons. So even if they were willing to do this, the chances of them having much focus on anything old is low. A single sidequest dungeon revamp is about the extent of it at the moment.