Please let us keep our abilities on sync down

[Deniza]

Not having my abilities on sync down was something I never understood.
Yes it needs more balancing but yea nothing impossible so far balancing was good besides some outliers.

Since the release of Shadowbringers I lost interest in doing low level content, and rouletts in general because I didn't want to get synced down. I kept leveling from EW onwards as fast as possible to get it over with asap. and I never want to enter a low level dungeon. I sometimes do to help people but then feel bored and confused at the same time because my job plays differently and its way less fun to play, especially when I know how it plays with the skills that are locked in the dungeon.

Long story short. I hope I'm not alone with this even tho I kinda lost hope for any changes in that direction.

[Shougun]

It won't be "easy" but honestly I think it would be better if they sync it down, just some of the stuff that happens makes syncing down mildly to really annoying. Id prefer if there is errors in dps that it's in favor of the new players although as little as possible would be 'ideal' obviously.

Many other MMOs operate this way and it causes me to be further annoyed at FFXIV's solution when I return to it.

Imo since each series of levels seems to be designed in their own head space, each 10 levels can have its own slightly differing sync formula, to provide the best experience possible.

While doing all this, take the revamped syncing system and ram it into other stuff. Like FATEs. Especially in the inverse, with mob stats- where mobs are too strong or too weak due to the slow changing ways.

[Jeeqbit]

The reason it's useful to lose our abilities on sync down is it allows us to "sync down" to the rotation we had in the given expansion, thereby preserving the experience we had in that expansion in the past. This is good for people who want to do old content Minimum Item Level, No Echo, because it allows them to experience the content more as it was, without the extra things we get at higher levels. Some changes are fundamentally different (like how we didn't have a universal Knockback Prevention before Stormblood), but mostly the essence of the rotation is recreated.

The reason rotations feel lackluster at lower levels is mostly because they truncated or merged actions and abilities at lower levels that didn't add much to the rotation, were just fluff, or could have been merged all along. A good example is Shield Swipe on PLD, which was just a rare ability you'd press to do a little extra damage. Even when they've reworked some jobs, they've tried to preserve the core essence of what was done in those expansions, even if the abilities themselves have different effects (AST cards for example).

The drawback is that it's ultra confusing to do a roulette and have a wildly different rotation depending on the level range, or sometimes an incomplete rotation in leveling dungeons.

As a compromise, if they preserve your max level rotation when syncing down, they could have a setting that syncs the rotation down still in Duty Finder settings so that people doing old MINE content are still able recreate the experience from a prior expansion.

You're not alone in feeling this way. It's commonly brought up and has been for years (almost as long as the game has had expansions for). There are just drawbacks to it that will probably prevent it happening, like being overpowered compared to a new player. For now, the only thing I can suggest for people who do not like this is to simply avoid such roulettes and sync downs. There are other options, such as leveling via beast tribes and daily hunt bills. It's unavoidable when doing Mentor Roulette and quite confusing to adjust after each queue, but ultimately I inflict this on myself by doing it.

[Collin_Sky]

It will never happen, for one of two reasons:

- Potencies remain the same when synced: "high level players do so much more damage with all their abilities, no one wants to run with me as a low level character because I make runs slow in roulettes"
- Potencies are scaled down when synced: "I have to put in so much more effort to do the same amount of damage as a low level character, I'm being punished for being high level"

It's a lose-lose situation.

[Nadda]

No.

Reasoning:

Because it simply wouldn't ever be balanced enough to work. You'll be expecting someone in a low level dungeon to use a spell or skill they don't have access to which will lead to even more confusion than just doing a simple rotation getting what you were going for and dipping out.

Now... scaling up dungeons so you can use your full kit to make Expert have more variety* That I could get behind.
Have em cycle out weekly, One week scaled to 100 Stormblood dungeons, Shadowbringers, Dawntrail

[Deniza]

It will never happen, for one of two reasons:

- Potencies remain the same when synced: "high level players do so much more damage with all their abilities, no one wants to run with me as a low level character because I make runs slow in roulettes"

if I can use all my abilities I run with you no biggy. I don't use a parser to even know how much damage anyone does in a dungeon or raid, nor do I care about that. I just want to use my abilities.

- Potencies are scaled down when synced: "I have to put in so much more effort to do the same amount of damage as a low level character, I'm being punished for being high level"

It's a lose-lose situation.

I'm asking for the effort I don't want to fall asleep on the wheel while doing rouletts. Yoshi-P said himself on stage that he fell asleep sometimes in EW. I'm asking to be more active and I don't see that as punishment.

[Rithy255]

Honestly I disagree and agree with this.

On one hand synching down is annoying when you have like 8 main abilities at level 50 and your job feels awful, but on the other hand I don't really like the idea of just having massive potency op skills or super strong tank defensives in early content. I think the solution is clear, let jobs have their core skills by level 50, including all rotational skills.

As a example I'll give Paladin, a job i think is super awful currently in lower content to play as.
1. Give "magic" skills early weaker versions, this being a early version of holy spirit with the core system of gaining one after a attack, also likely having a eariler version of req.
2. same goes with atonement you can have 3 sword skills that would be weaker versions of the combo
3. Give a little bit of sustain to sheltron or holy spirit, theirs no reason why Paladin should wait until 82 for any sort of sustain while other tanks get it way earlier, it doesn't need to be as much as it has at 100 either just equivalent to something like GNB.
4. Gap closer being lower (all jobs should get them pre-50), one charge is fine as its lower.

Now the job feels similar at lower levels, I'm sure it would need some number tuning, let expansion abilities be flashy upgrades and stuff, let jobs have their core class kit, you can apply these sort of changes to other jobs too, surprise surprise jobs would actually feel good now in early content, without having that factor of having over buffed skills in early content.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

All buttons? Probably impossible. But there needs to be the middle ground, I agree.

IMHO they do need to make synced experience better by not shoving all the ‘good stuffs’ to lv90+. Heck, see their supposedly ‘best designed’ job in DT: PCT. They’re great to play until you’re synced down to any level where you don’t have access to Rainbow Drip.

Now, how they do this exactly? It’ll be a chore & different for each jobs. Especially when it comes to healer/tanks whose abilities scales wildly. Say… how do you balance WHM’s kit when at Sastasha when their Cure I is essentially semi-benediction at that level? How are they gonna fix that though, not my problem. It’s the job dev’s problem to solve… if they’re willing to expend the resource for that, of course.

[Shougun]

The reason it's useful to lose our abilities on sync down is it allows us to "sync down" to the rotation we had in the given expansion, thereby preserving the experience we had in that expansion in the past. This is good for people who want to do old content Minimum Item Level, No Echo, because it allows them to experience the content more as it was, without the extra things we get at higher levels. Some changes are fundamentally different (like how we didn't have a universal Knockback Prevention before Stormblood), but mostly the essence of the rotation is recreated.

The reason rotations feel lackluster at lower levels is mostly because they truncated or merged actions and abilities at lower levels that didn't add much to the rotation, were just fluff, or could have been merged all along. A good example is Shield Swipe on PLD, which was just a rare ability you'd press to do a little extra damage. Even when they've reworked some jobs, they've tried to preserve the core essence of what was done in those expansions, even if the abilities themselves have different effects (AST cards for example).

The drawback is that it's ultra confusing to do a roulette and have a wildly different rotation depending on the level range, or sometimes an incomplete rotation in leveling dungeons.

As a compromise, if they preserve your max level rotation when syncing down, they could have a setting that syncs the rotation down still in Duty Finder settings so that people doing old MINE content are still able recreate the experience from a prior expansion.

You're not alone in feeling this way. It's commonly brought up and has been for years (almost as long as the game has had expansions for). There are just drawbacks to it that will probably prevent it happening, like being overpowered compared to a new player. For now, the only thing I can suggest for people who do not like this is to simply avoid such roulettes and sync downs. There are other options, such as leveling via beast tribes and daily hunt bills. It's unavoidable when doing Mentor Roulette and quite confusing to adjust after each queue, but ultimately I inflict this on myself by doing it.

If it was for min ilvl then you could just add skill set sync to that too, given that concept is already optional. If the reason was primarily for that I would call the dev's logic into question. The whole experience is damaged from the original state due to changes they make, it isn't OG even /now/. You get weird things too like one of the newer jobs coming in and rofl stomping things (like watching dancer be a cannon at early levels).



I agree with the below of you that says it's a lose lose but I would say that keeping the skills intact is a better lose, significantly. Having to relearn your job, losing what you find fun, these are massive losses... For what? Because someone might forget a new player doesn't have dash that you have? The content is so easy anyway that you can just take that person's confused opinion (that thinks they should have dash) and straight up ignore it. It's irrelevant concern, because you're going to win anyways.



As for the "it wont be balanced" we are already NOT balanced, a fresh level "x0" job vs max ilvl "x0" job will wipe the floor with the stat differences. (x0 being 60, 70, 80, 90, etc). We are already experiencing ALL the negatives, with none of the benefits. Yeah so what that SE has to do a little extra work, they've been crutch-ing on bare minimum of programing too long anyways. Make the system, yes it'll be slightly off, we're already off, hardly a concern. Personally I think the sync should be slightly in favor of the new player, such that the FEATURES of the abilities of the synced down ability and how that player uses it will really be the defining factor (that will matter, but if both players are 1 button toms then I guess the newer player would slightly out parse).

[mallleable]

I think a compromise is to rework the lower level experience so jobs have more of their fun job mechanics earlier. Hopefully this is on the agenda for 'job stuff' in 8.0.