The issue with Dawntrail and importance of 8.0

[Exmo]

Can't imagine why. It's not like you've seen all of the reviews from articles, reddit, the forums, steam reviews, media outlets or youtube videos.. and dismissed them all in favour of living inside your own bubble.. dare i even say echo-chamber? perish the thought.

And yes, i peaked at your history, which is open to the public domain, if you don't wish to be called out on being a hypocrite then don't be hypocritical.

You can try calling me out for being a werewolf but that would also be untrue.

The vast majority of players don't leave steam reviews, don't write articles, don't go the FFXIV reddit, don't produce YouTube videos. This is what's known as a vocal minority.

[ReynTime]

Here's an example
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post5984212

Thankfully that thread has players who read french natively so it's more than hearsay from americans who think their way is the only way, and it's full of examples.

Kindly stop pretending people are asking for 1:1 translation with nothing being adapted. Changing references and terminologies so that the script still makes sense for other language speakers' cultures is one thing.

Changing the nuances of the characterization, gender identity (the pixies for example) and lore detail to be discrepant with the source and the other supported languages however is akin to inserting personal fanon and THAT's what we're complaining about.

[PorxiesRCute]

Here's an example
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post5984212

Thankfully that thread has players who read french natively so it's more than hearsay from americans who think their way is the only way, and it's full of examples.

Kindly stop pretending people are asking for 1:1 translation with nothing being adapted. Changing references and terminologies so that the script still makes sense for other language speakers' cultures is one thing.

Changing the nuances of the characterization, gender identity (the pixies for example) and lore detail to be discrepant with the source and the other supported languages however is akin to inserting personal fanon and THAT's what we're complaining about.

The thread you linked doesn't say anything about the pixies' gender identities. I used the Search Thread tool and got nothing.

Were they presented as female in Japanese, or were they presented without any gendered words at all but you assumed they were female because of their appearance? I actually know enough Japanese to say that the latter is more statistically likely, but I'm open to being proved wrong.

Speaking of the post you linked, the argument is about this line:

Though His is a power born of the desire for salvation, we have seen the havoc it may wreak. And it falls to us to ensure that it is never again brought to bear upon this star.

Is it a direct 1-to-1 translation? No. Do I think it could have been worded more faithfully? Sure. But it's hardly the end of the world. What havoc did Zodiark's power born of the desire for salvation wreak? It tempered His followers and made them fight to rejoin the shards. It's not an untrue statement.

The rest of the thread is arguments about Zodiark and ad hominems being slung back and forth, so I'm not super inclined to read through even more pages of it.

Further, it is one statement that was made in patch 5.4. Previously in this thread you said, "Including how what's-her-face changed characters' perspectives in post 6.0 dialogue to give a stronger black and white depiction of Zodiark and Hydaelin". There... wasn't actually a lot of post 6.0 dialogue about Zodiark and Hydaelyn. So what are you talking about?

[ovIm]

The vast majority of players don't leave steam reviews, don't write articles, don't go the FFXIV reddit, don't produce YouTube videos. This is what's known as a vocal minority.

Sure, but there are still a lot of people that write reviews. If you consider how statistics work, and how geniunely positive all reviews were before dawntrail, you have to admit that FFXIV, which had a previously very favorable user score, now does not have that anymore. in fact, rougly half of the people writing reviews are in dislike of the current expansion, where previously, this was more in the ballpark of 10%.
(Metacritic User Score Shadowbringers: 9.1 based on 1040 ratings. Endwalker 9.0 based on 1669 ratings. Dawntrail 5.3 based on 1073 ratings)
About as many people ranked Shadowbringers as they did Dawntrail, and in Shadowbringers, they were mostly favorable. All sources point to you not acknowledging the facts.

look, its okay to like Dawntrail. Truly. If you enjoyed it, that is fine.
But brushing all these voices aside because they criticize a product you enjoy, that's erasing their voices and their relevance, and that's closing your eyes from the truth.

[Striker44]

Sure, but there are still a lot of people that write reviews. If you consider how statistics work, and how geniunely positive all reviews were before dawntrail, you have to admit that FFXIV, which had a previously very favorable user score, now does not have that anymore. in fact, rougly half of the people writing reviews are in dislike of the current expansion, where previously, this was more in the ballpark of 10%.

The question is who are the people most likely to write the reviews. They're not a random sample of the population. There is most certainly a specific subset of the gaming population that is significantly more likely to inhabit Reddit, post reviews, etc.. They do not represent anywhere near a majority of gamers, but they are by far the "loudest" voices. DT was most definitely not designed for them, so it doesn't surprise me to see the voluntary sample that is all "reviews" like this are is different than in past expansions. There's also a reason voluntary samples are known throughout the actual statistics community as being the most unreliable type.

It is just as much (if not significantly moreso) closing your eyes to the truth when you do the same exact thing and brush aside any voices that praise or enjoy a product you personally dislike. That's also erasing their voices and their relevance, and when you fail to consider on top of that how large that population may be in comparison...well, it explains why this place remains such an echo chamber of negativity and frustration as people work themselves up over the dev team "ignoring" them, when all that's really happening is they're listening to the much larger group of players that aren't here.

[Supersnow845]

The question is who are the people most likely to write the reviews. They're not a random sample of the population. There is most certainly a specific subset of the gaming population that is significantly more likely to inhabit Reddit, post reviews, etc.. They do not represent anywhere near a majority of gamers, but they are by far the "loudest" voices. DT was most definitely not designed for them, so it doesn't surprise me to see the voluntary sample that is all "reviews" like this are is different than in past expansions. There's also a reason voluntary samples are known throughout the actual statistics community as being the most unreliable type.

It is just as much (if not significantly moreso) closing your eyes to the truth when you do the same exact thing and brush aside any voices that praise or enjoy a product you personally dislike. That's also erasing their voices and their relevance, and when you fail to consider on top of that how large that population may be in comparison...well, it explains why this place remains such an echo chamber of negativity and frustration as people work themselves up over the dev team "ignoring" them, when all that's really happening is they're listening to the much larger group of players that aren't here.

Yeah the collapsing population is definitely indicative of strikers “MAH MAJORATAH” being catered to

[ovIm]

The question is who are the people most likely to write the reviews. They're not a random sample of the population.

That is, for all intends and purposes, irrelevant when you compare it to how previous expansions were rated by the customers. If Dawntrail was as good as previous expansions, the same amount of people would still praise the expansion. Just checking ShB and DT, metacritic had about the same amount of people give their opinion on it. If DT was so loved by the majority, then it would show in how the expansion was received.

It is just as much (if not significantly moreso) closing your eyes to the truth when you do the same exact thing and brush aside any voices that praise or enjoy a product you personally dislike. That's also erasing their voices and their relevance, and when you fail to consider on top of that how large that population may be in comparison...well, it explains why this place remains such an echo chamber of negativity and frustration as people work themselves up over the dev team "ignoring" them, when all that's really happening is they're listening to the much larger group of players that aren't here.

This is a forum. Posting in a forum means that any idea you put up will be analyzed, dissected, and possibly criticized. That is the nature of how places like these operate. Any post here can be challenged in one way or another. And if you go ahead to say that ~50% of the players liking the product are a vast majority, then that opinion will most certainly be challenged. This is not voice erasure, this is forum discourse.

As I said previously - its okay if you liked Dawntrail. More power to you. But liking something does not mean you cannot allow criticism of said thing.

[Exmo]

As I said previously - its okay if you liked Dawntrail. More power to you. But liking something does not mean you cannot allow criticism of said thing.

The same is true to those who like criticisms of DT, who narrativize a population decline into a disastrous population collapse, who consider the rise in negative steam reviews to not be fueled by the well known portion of bigots in the community. It would be a mistake to take the latter at face value. Much of the criticisms of DT on this forum (not all, much) is not genuine. Much of it is people being weird and unreasonable, people making stuff up, people being incapable of interacting with the text, people being unable to escape their expectations. It should be perfectly acceptable for others to criticize these opinions and see them as invalid, even if you don't agree with those criticisms. And yet, we've seen here people responding weirdly to those who contravene the echo in this chamber - either by incoherently frothing at the mouth like someone else in this thread, or like you have done by monologuing about how thou doth shield thine eyes from the truth. If like you said people here were engaging in open discourse in good faith, they would not respond with such hostility to opinions counter to their own, they would be able to respond without getting hostile or mocking those they disagree with. The fact that the latter behavior is rare here is indicative of a bad atmosphere.

[Supersnow845]

The same is true to those who dislike criticisms of DT, who narrativize a population decline into a disastrous population collapse, who consider the rise in negative steam reviews to not be fueled by the well known portion of bigots in the community. It would be a mistake to take the latter at face value. Much of the criticisms of DT on this forum (not all, much) is not genuine. Much of it is people being weird and unreasonable, people making stuff up, people being incapable of interacting with the text, people being unable to escape their expectations. It should be perfectly acceptable for others to criticize these opinions and see them as invalid, even if you don't agree with those criticisms. And yet, we've seen here people responding weirdly to those who contravene the echo in this chamber - either by incoherently frothing at the mouth like someone else in this thread, or like you have done by monologuing about how thou doth shield thine eyes from the truth. If like you said people here were engaging in open discourse in good faith, they would not respond with such hostility to opinions counter to their own, they would be able to respond without getting hostile or mocking those they disagree with. The fact that the latter behavior is rare here is indicative of a bad atmosphere.

Your first post on this thread was saying “nah DT was actually good”

Like genuinely what do you expect people to calmly analyse about that?

You haven’t defended your stance nor have you opted to do any sort of discussion you are asking others to calmly do with you

You basically said “nah DT good actually” then went into a silent majority fallacy then asked people to respect your minority on the forums opinion

[Exmo]

Your first post on this thread was saying “nah DT was actually good”

Like genuinely what do you expect people to calmly analyse about that?

You haven’t defended your stance nor have you opted to do any sort of discussion you are asking others to calmly do with you

You basically said “nah DT good actually” then went into a silent majority fallacy then asked people to respect your minority on the forums opinion

I didn't ask anyone to calmly analyse my post or respect my opinion. I simply said "DT was great" and some people went WILD. And when I point out how weird they behave they get more and more upitty. As in, people are trying to prove this place isn't an echo chamber by drowning out differing opinions and shunning dissenters. (And all this because someone dredged posts from different threads and responded to them here in an off topic way, which I think is not normal behavior.)

Btw it's not a fallacy to say the vast majority of players are not on these forums nor post reviews online. You may believe it's not true but that does not make it a fallacy.