Maybe it's time for a casual "strike" if not complete departure.

[Gurgeh]

So you agree with what CidHeiral said, anyone can do it if they want to, and if they dont want to then so be it.

You really didnt need to write all that just to confirm what they said. If you wanted to show them wrong, that failed.

No because the argument, the implication, is always that "this content is good enough for me so it IS good enough for you too." The impression is always "if you just tried it you will find you like it like I do. It is the 'minor' matter of 'attitide' that is you blocking you. So now we've concluded that you are being pathetic by not making use of hardcore, we can move on to ignore your requests"

You know, I don't think I've ever seen a casual argue, "delete extreme, delete savage, delete ultimate. We enjoy just chilling with our friends. You'll find you can too if you just learn to climb down if your fanaticism and need to polish your ego with flexs" , because we GET that what works for casuals, had nothing to offer high end.
But what your not getting is that we feel we've got nothing. The current casual content is 'bad' in a way that the high end isn't. Its not offering what casual should. But always the refrain from high end is "well, do hardcore instead"
Your not getting it. (Or your are and your trolling) but many aren't.

[Clockworks]

No because the argument, the implication, is always that "this content is good enough for me so it IS good enough for you too." The impression is always "if you just tried it you will find you like it like I do. It is the 'minor' matter of 'attitide' that is you blocking you. So now we've concluded that you are being pathetic by not making use of hardcore, we can move on to ignore your requests"

You know, I don't think I've ever seen a casual argue, "delete extreme, delete savage, delete ultimate. We enjoy just chilling with our friends. You'll find you can too if you just learn to climb down if your fanaticism and need to polish your ego with flexs" , because we GET that what works for casuals, had nothing to offer high end.
But what your not getting is that we feel we've got nothing. The current casual content is 'bad' in a way that the high end isn't. Its not offering what casual should. But always the refrain from high end is "well, do hardcore instead"
Your not getting it. (Or your are and your trolling) but many aren't.

I actually agree that casuals have got nothing, but that's because this community is as silent as can be, on every kind of issue actually, the community is the problem.

Congestion issues that dont exist (Proven by player numbers) ? A 20 pages thread, nothing else, yet people are barred from visiting aether at any time of the day that isnt 2 AM basically, yet the game is in pretty heavy decline, so one can wonder where is this so called congestion, but I guess it helps them to pretend that the game is "booming with players" since some people fall for it, just like the log in queues, most people think it's because the server is actually full, while the reality is that it logs people in batches to not "overload" (lol) the servers.

Mediocre graphical update ? Same thing, people eventually got silent and moved on, yet we have areas like the sea of clouds that are still to this day ruined by a heavy thick fog that makes the sunset the ugliest thing ever.

Character model issues ? People eventually got quiet over those too after a tiny bit of time, and now it's pretty much been forgotten.

Housing issues ? A housing forum that is barely used if at all with one post every few days, yet we are still limited at 30 wards per area per server for... reasons, oh wait, that's because they dont want to fix it since they are racking in the sub money by making people scared if they dare come back one day they'll have to bid for 5 years before maybe getting a large.

This is the same thing with every single issue in this game, people are silent, barely anyone says anything, and even if you dare say something, you get hit by what I call the FFXIV defense squad, "YES WOW IS WORSE !!!" "JUST GO PLAY WOW !!" "TALK FOR YOURSELF I LOVE X, THE MAJORITY DOES !!"

This community will be this game's downfall, and it will only be able to blame itself for letting it happen.

[JimCasey_RF6]

This community will be this game's downfall, and it will only be able to blame itself for letting it happen.

Our playerbase is far too full of themselves to be blamed for anything.

[Mawlzy]

I actually agree that casuals have got nothing, but that's because this community is as silent as can be, on every kind of issue actually, the community is the problem.

I wouldn't call it silent, exactly. It may lack tenacity, but I'd suggest that's because feedback doesn't seem to do anything.

We had a massive thread on everything that was wrong with Frontline prior to 7.1. Obviously a lot of noise, but also many sensible suggestions to make the mode more enjoyable. When the full patch notes came out, we found we'd been ignored, and given sweeping changes that nobody had asked for (that don't even accomplish what the devs claim they do).

This is probably why we end up arguing with each other.

[Clockworks]

I wouldn't call it silent, exactly. It may lack tenacity, but I'd suggest that's because feedback doesn't seem to do anything.

We had a massive thread on everything that was wrong with Frontline prior to 7.1. Obviously a lot of noise, but also many sensible suggestions to make the mode more enjoyable. When the full patch notes came out, we found we'd been ignored, and given sweeping changes that nobody had asked for (that don't even accomplish what the devs claim they do).

This is probably why we end up arguing with each other.

I do think that is true actually yeah, and that is also a massive problem, the community is just full of yes men regarding what SE does, SE as a whole genuinely never gets held accountable for anything FFXIV because the community would rather fight itself from within, added to the fact that they dont listen at all (because truly, they dont have to because of what I just mentioned) it's bound to eventually fail.

[IceEyes]

When the full patch notes came out, we found we'd been ignored, and given sweeping changes that nobody had asked for

That's calling "excel table moment", when from devs words: "we have a full image of situation, what justified on statistics X".

Based on their statistics and databases, they make decisions. You can even read their patch notes, which usually say...
"This job doesn't do a good enough and have a low win rate, so we're buffing it".

It feels like you're reading a patch for a MOBA.

The developer, in principle, rarely listens to the opinions of the players (with rare exceptions).

This can apply to the development of any content, not just PvP, and not only in FF14.

They see that hardcore content is in demand among hardcore raiders and continue to release it regularly. At the same time, they failed the most basic casual content (MSQ), but it has already been released, it cannot be “fixed” in a short time.

If for some reason a society is quiet or does not create enough noise, then everything suits it. In our situation, most hardcore raiders are happy with everything.

[Lilapop]

The developer, in principle, rarely listens to the opinions of the players (with rare exceptions).

In all fairness, "the players" rarely know what they want and will complain even if they're listened to.

[Gurgeh]

....

Well your discussing something different. Nearly all of which I basically agree with, except it being the community's fault.

XIVs humans aren't genetically superior. Nor are their cultural upbringing and norms. XIVs strengths used to be that they did things to reward and encourage positive behaviour, and they created a melting pot. 'Lalas' to filter people with fragile masculine egos. Not so much horrific FOMO and more drop rates that creates 'perform or GTFO!' toxicity. 'Some' homogenising of jobs and low barriers to job switching, that avoids creating "your face/job' isn't welcome, leave" toxicity.
A whole wealth of different personality types to mix together to braoden people's outlooks, and prevent any one mindset becoming 'too' domineering.

It was the game that takes credit. (People are people)
It's about good leadership.
Creative III used to provide great leadership, but it no longer does.
And CHAOTIC, and it's tone deafness, is perhaps the ultimate example of where that leadership had been poor. It's driven a huge wedge into the community.

It is not the communities fault. People are people.
It's time for Creative III to muster up good leadership, and restart some 'virtuous circles'.

[Sifpatata]

I actually agree that casuals have got nothing, but that's because this community is as silent as can be, on every kind of issue actually, the community is the problem.

Congestion issues that dont exist (Proven by player numbers) ? A 20 pages thread, nothing else, yet people are barred from visiting aether at any time of the day that isnt 2 AM basically, yet the game is in pretty heavy decline, so one can wonder where is this so called congestion, but I guess it helps them to pretend that the game is "booming with players" since some people fall for it, just like the log in queues, most people think it's because the server is actually full, while the reality is that it logs people in batches to not "overload" (lol) the servers.

Mediocre graphical update ? Same thing, people eventually got silent and moved on, yet we have areas like the sea of clouds that are still to this day ruined by a heavy thick fog that makes the sunset the ugliest thing ever.

Character model issues ? People eventually got quiet over those too after a tiny bit of time, and now it's pretty much been forgotten.

Housing issues ? A housing forum that is barely used if at all with one post every few days, yet we are still limited at 30 wards per area per server for... reasons, oh wait, that's because they dont want to fix it since they are racking in the sub money by making people scared if they dare come back one day they'll have to bid for 5 years before maybe getting a large.

This is the same thing with every single issue in this game, people are silent, barely anyone says anything, and even if you dare say something, you get hit by what I call the FFXIV defense squad, "YES WOW IS WORSE !!!" "JUST GO PLAY WOW !!" "TALK FOR YOURSELF I LOVE X, THE MAJORITY DOES !!"

This community will be this game's downfall, and it will only be able to blame itself for letting it happen.

Yes, in the end if ffxiv is going to die it will be because of those people, you can't criticize dawntrail without being called bigot, transphobic, etcetera.

[DPZ2]

Yes, in the end if ffxiv is going to die it will be because of those people, you can't criticize dawntrail without being called bigot, transphobic, etcetera.

Really? Someone called you transphobic? What did you write that caused this reaction?

I've read plenty of complaints and criticisms over the last 6 months, and none of the ones that stood out for me ended up with someone being called a "bigot, transphobic, etcetera."

The only thing I can vaguely remember was something about voice acting. Which I haven't found to be a problem in this game, except I preferred the original English-speaking talent of A Realm Reborn. I got used to the new talent after about six months of Heavensward.